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Bear cap and MF quest
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Post by
Br0tha
Hi,
I have more questions about the bear tanking !
I have 2 concern, but first I want to know more about the stats cap.
And no, I'm not talking about Hit neither Expertise.
I want to talk about Dodge, mastery, crit, armor, etc.
Those are probally are main stats that we are looking for, but do they have a cap ?
Can we have "too much dodge" ? Or mastery ?
What are the "good numbers" to aim for ?
40% dodge, 50% crit, 15-20 mastery, 55k armor ? I don't know, but I do want to know !
The second part
What want to talk about is that I'm one day away to finish the fireland quest and have acces to either Call of the ancients, Arnaments quest and the moonwell quest.
I'm not sure which one should I go with as a bear tank ?
For me what each quest provide :
Ancients : An upgrade with the glove from 359-365. And better stats.
Aviana's Grips
Arnaments : The +340 agi trinkets, but in the trinket list his lower than the one I already have
http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=189937#trinkets
Moonwell : The Moonwell Phial (+510 Stam/Dodge on use) But I use 2 agi trinket (reforged dodge) so I don't know if I should get one agi one stam trinket, not sure if it would be a good deal.
As for the pattern, I don't care much. I could go for the one that help more my off-spec too but, I really want to know first which one would be better for the bear tank.
Give me your opinions !
Thanks.
Post by
Thror
1.
There is no reachable cap to dodge currently.
There is no reachable cap to crit currently either.
Mastery stacks linearly and has no DR, so it will hardly ever be capped.
The armor cap was somewhere around 75k armor for lvl 88 targets I think, but not sure about it. Basically, not reachable.
2.
The Ancients and Armaments give you extra dailies so you can get the other upgrades sooner. I would suggest one of those. I know Ancients add 3 tokens per day, not sure about what Armaments give.
Moonwell is a pretty neat upgrade because it gives you food items for free and they are super extremely potent, but after I got it, i realised I could live without it and that I would rather have the other phases done sooner.
Post by
Br0tha
If there's no "cap".
What are the good number to reach ?
And what do you mean by "Mastery stacks linearly and has no DR" ? Also, what is a good number of mastery to have for bear tank ?
I just wonder to balance everything out more easily.
Thanks.
Post by
greywolfsage
2.
The Ancients and Armaments give you extra dailies so you can get the other upgrades sooner. I would suggest one of those. I know Ancients add 3 tokens per day, not sure about what Armaments give.
Ricket gives you two for
Living Obsidium
and
A Bitter Pill
. But blowing the head off a Lava Burster, quite satisfying.
Went for him for the gun/scope patterns, which i preceded to sell ZERO of. Just made a couple grand off my orbs and gave guild hunters the scope. le sigh.
And what do you mean by "Mastery stacks linearly and has no DR" ?
DR is "Diminishing Returns" in case you didn't know. Diminishing Returns being, as you get more of something, per point it's valued less. Like if you have 0 dollars, lets say, $100 sounds like a lot. But if you have, 1 million dollars, that 100 is just pocket change.
As you stack mastery, it never devalues a point. Every point is worth the same, all ways, no matter how much you have.
Also, I believe that Mastery works on the whole number, so like if you have 11.85 mastery, .85 of that mastery is doing nothing. Just something to be aware of.
Post by
LookOut
If there's no "cap".
What are the good number to reach ?
I'd say there's not really a number to aim for. Just get the ilvl as high as you can, preferring crit/mastery as your secondary stats and reforging the least valuable stat to dodge.
Post by
undockingprawn
Also, I believe that Mastery works on the whole number, so like if you have 11.85 mastery, .85 of that mastery is doing nothing. Just something to be aware of.
I Think that the .85 is worked into your mastery. Since we get 4% more to savage defence per 1.0 of mastery if it only worked with whole numbers the % would always be a mutipul of 4, but i am currently in between a whole mastery point and i have a 67% increse to savage defence.
Post by
curlymon
Mastery works on partial numbers. The only instance where this was not the case, and has since been hotfixed long ago, was Balance mastery.
Post by
SignupSucks
DR is "Diminishing Returns" in case you didn't know. Diminishing Returns being, as you get more of something, per point it's valued less. Like if you have 0 dollars, lets say, $100 sounds like a lot. But if you have, 1 million dollars, that 100 is just pocket change.
This is somewhat of a bad example to use. 100 dollars will buy 100 dollars of stuff regardless of whether you have 101 dollars or 1 000 001 dollars. This is actually a better analogy to use toward stamina. 100hp will absorb 100 points of damage, regardless of whether you have 500hp or 500,000.
A better example for diminishing returns is workforce. In a factory, you might have 100 workers, putting the factory at 'capacity'. You might be able to produce more of what you're making by adding more workers. However, if you add 50 or 100 more workers, everyone starts tripping over each other to get their own work done, making their work inefficient. You still increase the factory's total output, but the effect of those last 100 workers isn't as big as those first 10 you added.
Post by
144872
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
132589
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pelf
Oh come on foley, be imaginative. The example was referring to the diminishing relative worth of a quantity of money when the total quantity goes up. You could say "return" is how fuzzy it makes you feel and that is certainly "diminishing" as your total wealth increases.
Post by
Uiselveti
Dodge cap for a druid is 116.890707%, so yeah good luck hitting it.
Crit cap might seem easy to pin down at 100%; however, this is not the case & crit cap is affected by your ability to hit the mob. As a result, your hit rating and expertise play into the calculation.
For armor, the situation is a little more laughable. To acheive a 75% damage reduction from physical attacks versus a lvl88 mob you need 97,717.5 armor.
The running theme here is these caps are not something you should try to achieve.
The important take away from Thror's comment about no DR on Mastery is that the relative value of each additional point of Mastery is the same. 1pt of Mastery does the exact same thing as every other point of Mastery regardless of how much Mastery you have. This is not the case with other stats; Dodge for example. The only Dodge values that are not subject to DR are your base Dodge for your class, Dodge from talents & Dodge from your base agility.
All other Dodge is subject to DR
. It is important to note that despite being subject to DR, more Dodge
always
provides more mitigation, just a smaller amount per point the more you have.
However, Dodge being subject to DR, and Mastery not being subject to DR, has the important effect that at a certain point, the relative value of Mastery passes that of Dodge by providing better mitigation
per point
. This point is of special significance now, as this is achievable in gear from normal t12 raid instances.
Unfortunately, Mastery's relative value scaling is affected by other stats so there is no "get X Mastery" rule. You can; however, make some generalizations based on average item level, and it appears that for most bears this point occurs somewhere between an average ilvl365 & ilvl370.
Post by
greywolfsage
Oh come on foley, be imaginative. The example was referring to the diminishing relative worth of a quantity of money when the total quantity goes up. You could say "return" is how fuzzy it makes you feel and that is certainly "diminishing" as your total wealth increases.
Thank you pelf!
While they were true that my choice of example was not as strong as it could have been... I'll give them that.
Post by
168916
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
144872
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pelf
Circumventing the language filter is a penalty punishable by death.
Post by
yodadoe
It's really very simple:
1. There are not reachable caps (besides hit/exp) at this point.
2. More stats is better.
So your path is equally simple:
1. Itemize for Mastery and Crit first, when given the option. Item level almost always trumps secondary stats, though.
2. Reforge least wanted stat into Dodge.
3. Gem primarily for Agility with Agility/Stam purple gems and Agility/Dodge orange gems.
There's no real need to worry about getting "enough dodge" or "enough mastery." You simply go for higher item-level gear and are therefore a better tank. If you have the option to select certain pieces of gear then, yes, you want to go for items with Mastery on them. But the armor, agility and stamina on the gear is much more important. So it's all about item level. And you also will be gemming and enchanting for your primary stats (Agility, and stamina) over any secondary stat. You needn't waste precious brainpower worrying about what imaginary minimum armor or mastery or dodge to aim for.
Post by
Br0tha
Thanks all for your answer.
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