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Haste and resto druids
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Post by
461800
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
blowtorch
I assume that you have reforged everything possible to haste? It is possible to hit 2005 (its 2005, not 2004, you have to round up) haste without dropping so much intellect.
Do you have any pieces that can be replaced by others that give you a straight haste boost?
Treads of Hideous Transformation
can be replaced by
Fading Violet Sandals
for example. Or another common one is replacing
Heavenly Breeze
with
Drape of the Twins
instead.
Link armory please?
Post by
Temes
Simple answer = yes it is worth it, but do look closely for if there is ANYTHING other you could do to get more haste other than replace intellect.
Post by
red8981
it depends.
if you only do 5man heroics, then No.
if you do 10man raids then it is ok, i lean toward Int.
if you do 25man raids, then Yes
Post by
Shadax
I don't believe that you could ever convince me that with the current healing model, losing 140 int would be worth that extra tick. I would be inclined to believe that if you took the OPs character and made two identical copies, replaced the int gems as necessary to get 2005 haste on one copy and reforged the other one down to 917 haste, changing the rest to mastery or spirit as possible, the lower haste one would end up being the better healer.
Both stats result in throughput, but Int results in throughput via crit, mana pool (and therefore regen), and spell power. Haste will result in throughput with one (two if you count lifebloom) spell by changing things out to that point.
Personally, I'd say if you can reach 2005 at the cost of no more than about 70 int, it'd probably be a worthwhile trade. However, this is 100% my opinion based on nothing more than an understanding of the mechanics behind the game, since my resto has seen the inside of the entryway to ONE of the raids (this xpac, anyway).
Post by
Raleandris
You have to look at the choice of sacrificing int for 2005 haste in a couple of different ways. Number 1, my personal WG usage puts the spell at about 25-30% of my effective healing done on an average encounter, and up to 35 - 40% on consistent heavy raid damage encounters (Magmaw, ODS, V&T etc). I'm currently getting 8 ticks on my WG, adding a 9th tick will provide a 12.5% increase to the healing done by WG, minus whatever the potential lost intellect would be worth on all of the spells used. Basically it's ~3% increase to healing done in the worst case to ~5% in the best case. Whether the lost intellect is worth more or less than that depends on your gear, and your regen needs. If you're struggling for regen, you probably shouldn't be sacrificing too much int, but if you're fine with regen, then you really only need to look at throughput.
Post by
545803
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Temes
Both stats result in throughput, but Int results in throughput via crit, mana pool (and therefore regen), and spell power. Haste will result in throughput with one (two if you count lifebloom) spell by changing things out to that point.
Extra WG tick is more HPM, and haste increases throughput for all spells except rejuv (rejuv breakpoints aside) Theoretically, the haste cap is well worth saccing 100+ int, grab spreadsheets off EJ to confirm, spreadsheets have little to no value if you don't know how to play in-game though.
Haste does increase throughput for rejuv too, as the duration between ticks and so the duration of the spell shortens linearly between ticks.
Post by
545803
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
curlymon
Haste DOES increase throughput between breakpoints... the tick rate DOES increase between breakpoints... This is only a small boost to HPS BUT it IS a boost.
18k for 18 seconds vs 18k vs 17.1 seconds. This is STILL a boost to HPS and HPET by 5.26%. What it is NOT is a boost to HPM or the HPE.
Read the math you so claim to understand.
Post by
545803
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
curlymon
in both cases 1 second cast = 18k healing, no matter when the healing actually heals.
What YOU are talking about is HPE that is NOT HPS.
18k over 12 seconds is 1,500 HPS
18k over 10.7 seconds is 1,682HPS
You are missing the fact that while it is the SAME healing it is over a SHORTER period of time.
You argument misses several important points.
Healing touch, Cast time reduced with more haste.
Nourish, Cast time reduced with more haste.
Regrowth, Cast time reduced, short tick interval and potentially more ticks.
Rejuv, Shorter tick interval, potentially more ticks and shorter GCD.
Life Bloom, Shorter tick interval, potentially more ticks and a shorter GCD.
Wild Growth, Shorter tick interval, potentially more ticks and a shorter GCD.
Haste from 917 to 2005 STILL scales ALL of these factors.
Healing Per Mana (HPM) does not change, 18k for 3k does not matter how long the spell lasts.
Healing Per Execute (HPE) does not change, 18k is 18k is 18k.
Healing Per Execute Time (HPET) does change, 18k per 1.3 second cast (or GCD) is higher then 18k per 1.5 second cast (orc GCD)
Healing Per Second (HPS) does change, 18k per 10.7 seconds is higher then 18k per 12 seconds.
I ask you a few important questions.
Do you know what DoT and HoT clipping is?
Do you know that HPS of a HoT scales linearly through a breakpoint?
18k over 12 is 4 ticks 3 seconds apart for 4.5k each.
You will gain an additional tick once you reach a tick rate of 2.667.
At 18k over 10.667 seconds you have 1,687 HPS.
When you gain that extra tick you now have 22.5k over 13.333 or 5 ticks 2.667 seconds apart over 13.5 for 4.5k each.
22.5k over 13.333 seconds is 1,688HPS...
The gain of any haste is a benefit to HPS.
Curiouser and curiouser.
Post by
545803
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
curlymon
Let me quote the MOST relevant point about REJUV...
I ask you a few important questions.
Do you know what DoT and HoT clipping is?
Do you know that HPS of a HoT scales linearly through a breakpoint?
18k over 12 is 4 ticks 3 seconds apart for 4.5k each.
You will gain an additional tick once you reach a tick rate of 2.667.
At 18k over 10.667 seconds you have 1,687 HPS.
When you gain that extra tick you now have 22.5k over 13.333 or 5 ticks 2.667 seconds apart over 13.333 for 4.5k each.
22.5k over 13.333 seconds is 1,688HPS...
The gain of any haste is a benefit to HPS.
.
Follow the MATH.
You are limiting your view to only Rejuv by the way. Haste in the interim period effects...
Healing touch, Cast time reduced with more haste.
Nourish, Cast time reduced with more haste.
Regrowth, Cast time reduced, short tick interval and potentially more ticks.
Rejuv, Shorter tick interval, potentially more ticks and shorter GCD.
Life Bloom, Shorter tick interval, potentially more ticks and a shorter GCD.
Wild Growth, Shorter tick interval, potentially more ticks and a shorter GCD..
Haste from 917 to 2005 STILL scales ALL of these factors.
Oh HEY more of my post that has a point.
in both cases 1 second cast = 18k healing, no matter when the healing actually heals.
What YOU are talking about is HPE that is NOT HPS.
18k over 12 seconds is 1,500 HPS
18k over 10.7 seconds is 1,682HPS
OMG a correction in your thinking that you deign to overlook while shooting back with some argument about...
I think you have the tendency of spamming completely unrelated numbers to make yourself look smart.
Which leaves this section...
You argument misses several important points.
Healing Per Mana (HPM) does not change, 18k for 3k does not matter how long the spell lasts.
Healing Per Execute (HPE) does not change, 18k is 18k is 18k.
Healing Per Execute Time (HPET) does change, 18k per 1.3 second cast (or GCD) is higher then 18k per 1.5 second cast (orc GCD)
Healing Per Second (HPS) does change, 18k per 10.7 seconds is higher then 18k per 12 seconds.
What I was hoping could clarify the basic mathematical terminology when calculating healing For you since you were so very, very off in your HPE vs HPS assumption.
All this leaves us with...
Curiouser and curiouser.
... Curiouser and curiouser.
Post by
340332
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
545803
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
curlymon
You are calculating the HPS for 1 rejuv, now please take a look at the bigger picture, something actually useful, like a 6 minute boss fight. The healing hits a bit sooner, but you are still using 1 global cooldown to do 1 rejuv-worth of healing.
On any fight that is interesting your math is completely useless.
You talk about an interesting fight but then argue only for rejuv...
Since you continue to make the argument about Rejuvs specifically....
OK so in a 6 minute fight you can cast:
360 Rejuvs... with no overall healing gain at all unless you gain an additional tick. You know what, you are absolutely right...
Let's make it "interesting"
In that same time period (12.5%(917), 16.98%(1461) and 21.44%(2005) haste):
162, 168, 174 Healing touches
162, 168, 174 Nourishes
270, 280, 291 Regrowths
270, 280, 291 Lifebloms
For Healing Touch and Nourish:
168/162 = 3.7% boost
174/162 = 7.4% boost
For Regrowth:
281/270 = 3.7% boost + the value of gaining a tick.
291/270 = 7.8% boost + the value of gaining a tick.
For Life Bloom:
281/270 = 3.7% boost + the value of gaining a tick.
291/270 = 7.8% boost + the value of gaining a tick.
These are ALL haste based throughput gains. And since you don't seem to follow my math at all... 12.5% is 917 rating or that happy place where you get an extra rejuv. 21.44% is 2005 rating and that happy place where you gain an additional tick of WG. 16.98% is 1460 is a happy median between the two.
Ss let's look at the facts we have discussed today...
The NUMBER of rejuvs one can cast during a 6 minute period won't change,
but everything else does
.
Since you won't be casting only rejuvs you will see a net gain in HPS.
A haste boost to Rejuv does effect the individual spell's HPS
Post by
545803
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
curlymon
Lets look at a simple example of healing.Over a 10 second period. (917 rating, 5%raid haste):
1 HT will be cast.
4 rejuvs will be recast
1 WG will be cast
1 GCD will be open
Total of 11.25 LB ticks, 15 Rejuv ticks, 8 WG ticks, and an HT.
Just a baseline.
Lets continue with my previous numbers(1461 rating, 5%raid haste):
1 HT will be cast.
4 rejuvs will be recast
1 WG will be cast
2 GCDs will be open
Total of 11.7 LB ticks, 15.6 Rejuv ticks, 8 WG ticks, and an HT.
What scaled:
3.96% boost to LB
3.96% boost to Rejuv
+1 GCD
What didn't scale:
0.00% boost to WG
0.00% boost to HT
And finaly the magic number with(2005 rating, 5%raid haste):
1 HT will be cast.
4 rejuvs will be recast
1 WG will be cast
2 GCDs will be open
Total of 12.14 LB ticks, 16.19 Rejuv ticks, 9 WG ticks, and an HT.
What scaled:
7.93% boost to LB
7.93% boost to Rejuv
12.5% boost to WG
+1 GCD
What didn't scale:
0.00% boost to HT
Seems to me like there is more then enough scaling between 917 and 2005.
Lets give some fun values to the healing(values taken from Tree Calc default profile).
HT - 28,133
Rejuv - 27,379 @ 5 ticks or 4828 per tick + 3239 from GotEM
LB - 2211 per tick (3 stack)
WG - 1327 per tick
917 haste example - 202,095; 20,210 HPS
1461 haste example - 205,952; 20595 HPS; 1.9% boost; 286.3 haste rating per %
2005 haste example - 217,772; 21777 HPS; 7.8% boost; 139.5 haste rating per %
Extrapolate what you will out of it, but numbers do not lie.
Post by
curlymon
Haste def. increases output for all other spells obviously, but on the bigger picture does next to nothing for rejuv.
Haste does nothing for rejuv in the points between breakpoints... Unless you clip the HoT. Like you would do on a tank. at which point breakpoints play no major role in the considerations as you won't lose a tick and all ticks will scale linearly with haste.
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