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10.2.7
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10.2.6
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Patch 4.2: Holy Paladin Roller Coaster!
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Post by
svirve
God you're stupid.
Your fix to paladins having higher mana efficiency than the other healing classes is to reduce the ilvl of our tier set.
Most retarded thing I heard today!(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Gnub##DELIM##No reason to get offensive, regardless.
Post by
146856
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Raleandris
Lets put it this way. None of the healing specs are having issues with mana providing they heal intelligently.
This is working as intended.
It just so happens that holy paladins are too efficient, and so we're being brought into line. Will this make it harder for freshly dinged holies who blindly press buttons in heroics? Hell yes. Will it make it harder for intelligent healers in sub-par gear? Very slightly.
Post by
Sgtpain
It's interesting that this is happening. I was just discussing with a guildie about how sick his mana efficiency and regen were. I actually sat and watched him and the tank solo Venoxis from 60% to dead and he had 35% mana left at the end of the fight. You might say "I bet he is uber geared". No, the tank was only moderately geared with a few epics and mostly blues, and the healer only has one epic. Amazing how the pulled it off.
Now, this is not to say Holy pallies should be nerfed to the ground and that I have anger fueling my commitment to see them nerfed, but, when a class can pull that off, that's pretty powerful.
Unfotunately, I gave up my pally, finally, about halfway through wrath. I had stuck with them from the beginning of BC until then, but I was just done with the roller coaster. It just feels like Blizz just can't make up their minds of what the pally should be.
Post by
Raleandris
A healer healing one target (PotI covers himself mostly) on a non-threatening boss that allows him to spam his extremely cost effective heal is
working as intended
. Seriously, none of the healers right now have mana issues if played correctly. The only healers that really struggle are bubble-spamming Disc priests in 25mans that have a team of innervates and mana tide totems to keep them going.
Post by
Sgtpain
A healer healing one target (PotI covers himself mostly) on a non-threatening boss that allows him to spam his extremely cost effective heal is
working as intended
. Seriously, none of the healers right now have mana issues if played correctly. The only healers that really struggle are bubble-spamming Disc priests in 25mans that have a team of innervates and mana tide totems to keep them going.
So what you're saying is, in perfect conditions with only one target, mana should be infinite, correct? I don't see perfect conditions ever happening, but I also don't think that having infinite mana is "Working as intended". One would assume it would take uber geared players to have infinite mana in any encounter in a the latest and greatest heroics (RotZ).
Post by
Flonnette
I don't think anyone is saying happy about the nerf but it is somewhat expected. Right now I'm overhealing approximately at 20% but I don't really care because mana isn't an issue. And its probably going to get worse if they change the crit ratio. I see exactly what Blizzard is talking about even if I find their talking points dubious.
Post by
svirve
^^ LOL u do know that increasing mana cost will hurt will holy pally across the board. What blizzard is saying is that Top end gear pally is having too much mana regen therefore they are increasing the mana cost of our heals.
Simply fix the gear for the next raid content is better. That way top Tier raiding pally will have mana issue like the rest of the other healers since there is not less spirit on their gear while lower gear pally don't get nerf.
Since I was getting offensive I won't say it again but I will refer you to my previous post.
Your argument is that holy paladins have too much regen, thus you want to remove spirit from our next tier of gear, correct?
In order to remove spirit one of two things has to happen:
1. The ilvl of our next tier of gear is reduced.
2. It is exchanged for other stats, thus not reducing our efficiency in any way.
Neither of these will happen thus increasing our mana costs does happen.
This is a well deserved nerf, anyone who plays a holy paladin properly will know this. Holy paladins efficiency is unbalanced compared to other classes, even at low ilvls.
This
is my current paladin. Healing Nefarian HC and Ascendant Council HC I'll have 20-30% more mana compared to the other healers in our group. I will also have equal or better throughput depending on the circumstances, nothing beats a holy priest on AoE.
Even though I have end-game gear at the moment, I've never had troubles with mana. I started healing heroics with 70k mana and a tanking weapon. One might argue that I am the svirve after all but holy paladin healing efficiency is simply unbalanced at the moment.
Post by
Fulgorater
I know I'm coming in late but glad to see that I'm not insane for constantly wondering why the holy paladin in my raid always has 30% more mana than me regardless of phase/intensity...
Post by
SlowSide
I honestly think this should have come sooner.
Post by
pezz
A healer healing one target (PotI covers himself mostly) on a non-threatening boss that allows him to spam his extremely cost effective heal is
working as intended
. Seriously, none of the healers right now have mana issues if played correctly. The only healers that really struggle are bubble-spamming Disc priests in 25mans that have a team of innervates and mana tide totems to keep them going.
So what you're saying is, in perfect conditions with only one target, mana should be infinite, correct? I don't see perfect conditions ever happening, but I also don't think that having infinite mana is "Working as intended". One would assume it would take uber geared players to have infinite mana in any encounter in a the latest and greatest heroics (RotZ).
Not really. The current design is that you can regen while spamming your most mana efficient rotation possible. That's the point of that rotation.
Post by
Masoj
Raided in Wrath and I most say that the situation with infinite mana in the end got a bit boring. So I can see what blizz is doing. Bringing us on par with others healers seems fair.
But as newly dinged this really hurts and I hope 4.2 is so long away that my gear will be better before then. With new people freshly dinged that never do anything right I am spamming Divine Light more often than I like to. As several others said mana is no problem in well functioning groups but PuGs are rarely functioning well.
Post by
146856
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
481692
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Flonnette
@spongemike: On the contrary it is my experience that you can exclusively main tank heal and never be in danger of going out of mana. Take a fight like Cho'gall: A Holy Paladin can end up with +50% mana going into the final phase and that includes some serious and protracted heavy healing moments. Even though Cho'gall features some brutal moments of damage, as long as you know these are coming and using cool downs (along with the tank) and as long as the fight enters a pause or "breather" moment that allows me to focus on mana regen then I'll never go out of mana.
If you think that this change going live is going to ruin Holy Paladins and you won't play any more that is fine but it is my experience that it won't change much. If this change went live today and we were attacking any event it would still the same tactics and manuvers. If they changed the the SP/Int or the coefficients of the heals that would be a different situation but that isn't what is going on.
Post by
jediknight120
From my experience in 5 man heroics and ZA/ZG, I only have mana problems when my group goes pants on head and starts taking "unnecessary" damage. Apart from that I feel like I'm doing something wrong if my mana goes below 50%. So I'm not
too
worried about this hurting me much.
What I AM concerned about are new 85s who haven't geared up yet. I remember having mana problems myself at that stage, and I can't imagine these changes will help that.
Post by
481692
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
146856
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Azazel
I can't see how an extra sprint will make up for the higher mana cost of heals in PvP.
Post by
svirve
This can be fix easily put crt and mastery on gear instead of say Spirit or haste. Put the worse stats on.
I'm just going to take this jewel of a comment out of the post and sit and enjoy for a moment.
The fact that you are saying the above just proves that you are out of the possibility of a clue.
I'll give you a
hint
.
P.S. I do know there are offset pieces with haste and spirit. But the fact that the problem is actual when we have mastery and crit on a majority of the gear available just makes his argument loltastic.
I see posts almost everyday about how badly itemized T11 is.
Maybe you are good and perfect and knows your class inside and knows the perfect rotation but others don't and need time to learn. What does increasing mana cost will make them do? Nothing, it will simple make them run regulars till they have enough JC points to get full T11 and then do heorics so pretty much they are just going to outgear the content.
Well I kinda am, ain't I?
I guess they'll have to do like every other healing class, L2P.
Cause after this nerf it'll be exactly as hard to heal with a holydin as any other healing class.
As blizzard state a holy pally in raid can keep spamming DL and end up with 40% mana is very very incorrect. I try healing (gear level about 350) heal one of the easier heroics using only Beacon on tanks, DL, Holy shock and light of Dwan when I have 3 holy power. I can tell you that I am constantly going OOM. I have aobut 3.5kmp5 out of mana and about 2.5k to 2.6kmp5 while in cobant, I just my judgement on every CD. So no form my testing and talking to other holy pally on my server that radied as holy that is not true. Maybe for holy pallys who are in full Heroic gear with the BIS currently then yes maybe that's case but certainly not true for most holy pallys out there.
I regret to inform you but, you must've misread. Nobody is spamming DL. That's a mana consumption of about 20k every 5 seconds. My mana would drain in about 30 seconds doing that.
The actual problem is that you can use DL too carelessly. If you see someone drop 30k HP you dont use 2 HLs to get them up, you use a DL for double the mana cost. Cause you know you're going to get that mana back way too fast.
I've gone and made a standard of spamming my tank with DLs right before a pull so I get a full set of 3 HoPos right of the bat. Doesn't really matter much since I'll judge the first thing I do, that's 1/3 of a DL back. And by the time i get positioned I'd have regenerated the rest from replenishment and Mp5.
If you find this to be a game-breaking change for you, I honestly don't know what to say.
I've seen paladins go from dispelatrons in vanilla to tank^&*!@es in tBC and being mana !@#$%s in WotLK.
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