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Old.wowhead
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Post by
volscian
Oh, I never said I considered it, I honestly just thought it could be nice to have the game they way I liked it. I understand the concept of moving forward and continuing the story line, but why take the existing story and wipe it out? Anyone starting fresh, or even those who have played before and are coming back, are going to start out in the present, go back in time through 2 expansions, and then fast forward to the present again. I enjoyed having the story, and being able to feel comfortable making alts and knowing where to work my way through, rather than feeling like an idiot not knowing what is where and trying to find things that are gone. Leave the original story alone, build on it going forward, and make the new areas, races, and whatnot, just like they did with TBC and WotLK. As for not caring for this site and what they're doing to it now, I agree with previous concepts such as a downloadable database, or the idea of leaving things be here and keep the old database, not adding more functions to a site that I feel to be cluttered already. The layout of the site made finding what I wanted a quest within itself, as most things never lead to where they should have, or the search function just being stupid. So, that all being said, try to talk with me rather than coming out on the attack. I would simply leave Blizz and the games they make, and find something else to play.
Post by
danawhitaker
"On topic: I stand by my previous comment that the information is still out there on other sites, and I would rather have Wowhead working then buggy due to old data; more then likely this was done to help clean up the database for the actual live game....which, let's admit, is more important then old data, no matter how much nostalgia you get from it."
It's not there in nearly the format that it was with wowhead. I played around on Wowpedia for a while and while yes, I was able to find a lot of old quests, *all* the comments, the discussion, the FLAVOR of what made those quests unique, interesting, challenging, the little things we remembered about them...*that* is missing. I have my suspicions that if I sat down to do it, I'd find plenty of incomplete or missing entries as well. The other problem with those sites is that people can come along and simply change the information at will. On wowhead, you could comment, but the accurate information from the game was always intact.
Post by
Adamsm
Oh, for those who keep asking for the dev's to post...Koper and Fewyn posted on the very first page; Koper's
first post
in the thread says why they did it.
Post by
volscian
I agree totally with that, and I always liked how complete things were here. Sure, there may not have been a lot of comments on some of the stuff, but overall there was a good amount of information and you could piece things together quite well here, whereas other sites things are too sketchy, and people tend to say this or that, and it's different all the time.
Post by
Flitzy
It's just something we had to do for performance reasons, you shouldn't notice any differences.
I demand that the tooltip code be pink with bunnies in the corner! ;)
Post by
danawhitaker
Oh, for those who keep asking for the dev's to post...Koper and Fewyn posted on the very first page; Koper's
first post
in the thread says why they did it.
They haven't, however, posted since the very relevant point was made that there are still regions of the world that do not *have* Cataclysm, that still have all those old quests and items, and that won't have Cataclysm for the near future. Of course, maybe they'd just argue that doesn't matter since they say they weren't getting many page hits on the old site anyway.
Given the course this appears to be taking, I'm seriously rethinking the idea of getting a paid subscription here. I've been extremely grateful to have this site around for the past four years and was thinking about it as a little birthday present to myself. But much like I've questioned resubbing to WoW when they've made questionable unannounced changes to the game, I have to question whether I'd want to subscribe to a site that won't inform users in advance when they're taking down massive chunks of content that some people still use. I'm not intending to be rude or inflammatory - I'm extremely grateful and have used this site almost every day for most of 2007 and then again from late 2008 until now. I'm just attempting to express my frustration about something that is important to me.
Post by
Adamsm
They haven't, however, posted since the very relevant point was made that there are still regions of the world that do not *have* Cataclysm, that still have all those old quests and items, and that won't have Cataclysm for the near future. Of course, maybe they'd just argue that doesn't matter since they say they weren't getting many page hits on the old site anyway.
And to be fair, those areas of the world that still have Wrath by force.....are also non-English speaking, which means they wouldn't use the old data anyways. And while China is stuck on Wrath, isn't it still on patch 4.0, not 3.5.5 which is what the private server players(again, people who are stealing Warcraft technically) are on; so the idea of them having the old Azeroth, and not the revamp, is not true for the live players.
Post by
XSavior
And while China is stuck on Wrath, isn't it still on patch 4.0, not 3.5.5
Well, the old wowhead site is a snapshot of 4.0.1 so it is technically correct.
Post by
volscian
And while China is stuck on Wrath, isn't it still on patch 4.0, not 3.5.5 which is what the private server players(again, people who are stealing Warcraft technically) are on
I just wanted to pop in on this technicality, on the basis that everyone on private servers owns legitimate copies of the software sold by Blizzard, there really isn't any stealing. I'm not saying in any way that I condone this, but based on the fact that basically everything is done client side, it's not precisely stealing. Then again, those that did not pay for the software are pirating, those that own the software are sitting in a rather grey area.
Post by
danawhitaker
"And to be fair, those areas of the world that still have Wrath by force.....are also non-English speaking, which means they wouldn't use the old data anyways. And while China is stuck on Wrath, isn't it still on patch 4.0, not 3.5.5 which is what the private server players(again, people who are stealing Warcraft technically) are on; so the idea of them having the old Azeroth, and not the revamp, is not true for the live players."
The changes to the old world content came in 4.0.3a.
I'm not sure why the issue of private servers should even be coming into this discussion. No, they shouldn't be catered to. But there are plenty of legitimate reasons to want to see old data that outweigh the desire to "stick it to" those few players that some people here seem to have. Nostalgia, wanting to compare drop rates and node locations between then and now, etc.
Clearly I'm not going to win this argument with you. But it once again boils down to the idea of, why does there always have to be someone who basically does a happy dance when something gets removed that upsets other people but benefits that person in no way whatsoever? If you didn't use it, there's no change for you at all.
Post by
dsrbo
Guys, girls, I think all of the participants of this topics should return to the plain facts regarding old.wowhead.com.
The facs are:
Wowhead announced this as a service to the community,
TheOnyx made a statement that the archived data would be made available for download only if wowhead considered to take down the archive,
the community contributed the data on the old site!
Now if you do not want to run the site archive, at least stick to your statements, and let the community run the archive itself if it wants to.
I thought Wowhead was all about good community, and this kind of thing stinks of the lack of community sense.
Post by
Adamsm
And while China is stuck on Wrath, isn't it still on patch 4.0, not 3.5.5 which is what the private server players(again, people who are stealing Warcraft technically) are on
I just wanted to pop in on this technicality, on the basis that everyone on private servers owns legitimate copies of the software sold by Blizzard, there really isn't any stealing. I'm not saying in any way that I condone this, but based on the fact that basically everything is done client side, it's not precisely stealing. Then again, those that did not pay for the software are pirating, those that own the software are sitting in a rather grey area.
Um, yeah it is; the 'owners' of the private servers don't pay money to Blizzard after all, they keep it all to themselves.
Post by
Monday
And while China is stuck on Wrath, isn't it still on patch 4.0, not 3.5.5 which is what the private server players(again, people who are stealing Warcraft technically) are on
I just wanted to pop in on this technicality, on the basis that everyone on private servers owns legitimate copies of the software sold by Blizzard, there really isn't any stealing. I'm not saying in any way that I condone this, but based on the fact that basically everything is done client side, it's not precisely stealing. Then again, those that did not pay for the software are pirating, those that own the software are sitting in a rather grey area.
No. Blizzard specifically forbids private servers in the ToS to install WoW. Thus, if you have WoW, and you have a private server, then it is stealing.
Post by
807070
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
volscian
Agreed on the back to the topic concept (and also my apologies for the oversight that private servers violates Blizz's ToS for WoW), I for one would like a downloadable archive. A good amount of it is, yes, personal aspects such as lore and history, but also there have been times where it is nice to do comparisons. That being said, +1 vote for downloadable, and if this does come to be, I'd for one be greatly appreciative.
Post by
Rawveggie
For me the one question left to answer is if the Wowhead devs are going to make the old database downloadable. They said they would think about doing it if the old.wowhead db came down. It's down now and there hasn't been an answer to that question.
I understand that the devs explained why they did it, and I'm grateful for that explanation. If they never plan on putting it up again it would be nice to know because then those of us that want the data will be shuffling off to other sites to try to piece it together. Most of us that are after the information are hoping that we can get Wowhead's database because it is the most complete (there is a reason that this site is so popular) and the community helped make the old database what it was.
Post by
XSavior
Guys, girls, I think all of the participants of this topics should return to the plain facts regarding old.wowhead.com.
The facs are:
Wowhead announced this as a service to the community,
TheOnyx made a statement that the archived data would be made available for download only if wowhead considered to take down the archive,
the community contributed the data on the old site!
Now if you do not want to run the site archive, at least stick to your statements, and let the community run the archive itself if it wants to.
I thought Wowhead was all about good community, and this kind of thing stinks of the lack of community sense.
This is EXACTLY what I am referencing. They make this statement and then fast-forward to now.. the site is down (with no warning) and there has been nothing for WoWhead devs regarding what they plan to do about it. It is also very accurate that the community "owns" the data not wowhead. The data was gathered by the community (players) and if the community would like the data made available to them (as has been requested) then it is not an unreasonable request.
AFAIK Wowhead does not have some sort of Monopoly Ownership on the data collected.
I can understand if the cost of keeping the site up and running is not worth it for wowhead so if this is the case make the data available so others can make it available to the community.
I think the issue is wowhead does not want to give up the web traffic and income they get from users so they just rather ignore the situation in the hopes everyone just "goes away" and forgets about it.
Post by
Pwntiff
It's their data and their site, and they took it down because the streamlining they were doing to the tooltip code would break the old.wowhead.com tooltips.
If you want something done about posting the old data for download, get off your moral high horse and just ask for it.
Post by
danawhitaker
It's their data and their site, and they took it down because the streamlining they were doing to the tooltip code would break the old.wowhead.com tooltips.
If you want something done about posting the old data for download, get off your moral high horse and just ask for it.
We have been asking for exactly that, for days. I don't see any high horses. I would be perfectly satisfied with simply having it available to download. I'm perfectly content with them choosing not to host it. I would also be perfectly content with them hosting it with tooltips that don't work too.
And, while the framework for the database itself is theirs, where do you think all the contributions come from? Those of us who use the wowhead looter addon. And those of us who comment on quests, items, and other things in the database, and upvote other comments. The screenshots come from the players. That is the compilation of OUR numerous hours playing the game, testing things, contacting GMs for confirmation about things. I'm sure somewhere in the terms they can claim it as their data, but the fact is, the majority of the meat, the detail, that comes from *players*. Taking data that people contributed for years and making it inaccessible with no warning is just wrong.
Post by
XSavior
It's their data and their site, and they took it down because the streamlining they were doing to the tooltip code would break the old.wowhead.com tooltips.
If you want something done about posting the old data for download, get off your moral high horse and just ask for it.
Yes, this is the case. We ARE asking for it. Either Download/host/ect but please make the data available instead of just making is disappear into the black abyss.
It was wowhead themselves that make the statement that they would look at doing something if they decided to remove the site. Now it is removed without warning and no other solutions have been offered other then "It was going to cause problems so we took it away".
I am respectfully requesting the wowhead development team to please discuss this matter further with us and explain what you plan to do or not to do about the problem (Or other ideas we have not yet discussed). As you see this topic HAS generated quite a bit of interest and concern.
Thank You!
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