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New Nature's Bounty: Completely useless?
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Post by
MegaVolt
The new talent will make Nourish cast 30% faster when at least 3 Rejuvenation are active.
What's the point?
Casting it faster will not change HPM at all, all it changes is throughput. It will increase the Nourish mana consumption. But Nourish is supposed to be the efficient heal, if I want more throughput then I can just cast HT instead.
The HPM of Nourish and HT are (according to the latest TreeCalc) almost exactly equal so I gain really nothing by casting Nourish faster. In a given timeframe, lets say 10 seconds, I could previously just cast Nourish x3 and HT x1 if more throughput was needed. Now with the faster Nourish I'll just cast that 5 times instead, using almost exactly the same mana and having almost exactly the same effect.
We already have a huge and efficient heal, it's HT. Increasing the throughput of our low-throughput-healing spell while at the same time increasing its mana consumption (more casts in the same time) is just utterly pointless. Except maybe in the rare situation when the 30% faster cast time means the heal arrives before the raid member dies - but they you shouldn't be casting Nourish anyway, we already have Regrowth for that.
So what's the point of that talent? Taking a few seconds off the Swiftmend cooldown at least made some sense, turning Nourish into something between Nourish and HT is pointless.
Post by
533581
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Post by
MegaVolt
Actually, in this case your mana efficiency will raise! Nourish is more efficient than HT, so using nourish more will make you more efficient ==> healing per mana will be more efficient.
That's exactly my point: No, it is not. At least according to the latest TreeCalc the HPM of Nourish and HT is almost exactly equal. There is a small difference, it's 5.12 vs 5.17 - really completely negligible (as comparison, Regrowth is at 2.31, Swiftmend is at 12.71 and Rejuvenation is at an amazingly bad (for a HoT) 7.46, Lifebloom wins the contest with 14.96 for a single cast).
Using Nourish instead of HT does not make us more efficient, at least not in any significant way. That's why the talent is so pointless, all it does is make Nourish act more like HT when we already got HT anyway.
Post by
curlymon
I get the feeling that it is some attempt at making us strong raid healers int he form of spot heals between WG's and the 3 rejuv's.
WG > Rejuv > Rejuv > Rejuv > Nourish spam until WG is up.
Or something. At least it's the impression that I get... whether it will work well at all I've not got a clue but, eh, maybe I need more caffeine.
Post by
ljudsnubbe
I dont care if the talent doesnt make nourish more HPM-efficient. Dont you pick up the talent
in your healingspecc? It doesnt make nourish cost any less mana, still its extremely useful.
I for one is going to love this new change, because I freaking HATE the "new" slow cataclysm-nourish...
Post by
317595
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Post by
curlymon
Smallpockets, ALWAYS ALWAYS have a 3 stack of life bloom going on the tank, it is almost mana neutral to maintain AND much more importantly you miss out on a TON of mana gain if you don't have one going... if your RL is telling you to not use it kindly refer him here...
Post by
MegaVolt
I dont care if the talent doesnt make nourish more HPM-efficient. Dont you pick up the talent
in your healingspecc? It doesnt make nourish cost any less mana, still its extremely useful.
You are missing the point:
Naturalist doesn't change HPM but it does increase HPS (throughput) by making HT cast faster.
The new Nature's Bounty will not change HPM
and it will do nothing for your HPS either
since you cast HT for throughput anyway and not Nourish.
Increasing throughput of the high throughput spell is awesome. Increasing throughput of the low throughput spell that is supposed to be used when you don't need much healing is just plain stupid.
If Nourish were more mana efficient than HT that would be an argument but it isn't since both have almost exactly the same HPM. If I want more throughput with my Nourish I just cast HT instead, case closed. Making Nourish heal for more and cost more mana is pointless.
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317595
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132589
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684318
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Post by
MegaVolt
Do you have any numbers to back up the assertion that a 1.75s nourish is the same HPS as a 2.5s HT? I think that HT is still going to be much higher HPS but thats not based on any math.
Yes, the HT will still have a much higher HPS. Spamming HT is produce way more HPS than spamming Nourish. Only the HP
M
are (almost) the same.
That's what makes the buff pretty useless: When my Nourish HPS is not enough I can just cast HT instead. There is no need to increase HPS for Nourish, it's completely redundant, we already have HT for exactly that.
Post by
ljudsnubbe
I dont care if the talent doesnt make nourish more HPM-efficient. Dont you pick up the talent
in your healingspecc? It doesnt make nourish cost any less mana, still its extremely useful.
You are missing the point:
Naturalist doesn't change HPM but it does increase HPS (throughput) by making HT cast faster.
The new Nature's Bounty will not change HPM
and it will do nothing for your HPS either
since you cast HT for throughput anyway and not Nourish.
Increasing throughput of the high throughput spell is awesome. Increasing throughput of the low throughput spell that is supposed to be used when you don't need much healing is just plain stupid.
If Nourish were more mana efficient than HT that would be an argument but it isn't since both have almost exactly the same HPM. If I want more throughput with my Nourish I just cast HT instead, case closed. Making Nourish heal for more and cost more mana is pointless.
Look at it this way: If HT and Nourish is roughly the same HPM and HPS, you wont
have to
cast HT to get throughput: You dont have to stand still for like a zillion seconds to cast a heal with high HPS: nourish will do that for you as well.
Maybe its just me, but I see this as a mobility-boost, not a boost to throughput or mana-efficiency. Ive had a hard time adjusting to cataclysm druid-healing (and with "adjusting", I mean enjoying), since we have been forced to become so damnn stationary (with the long casttimes of HT and Nourish).
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404185
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23639
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