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Why frost?
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Post by
soupladel
I ask that question because i had done research on the subject and there seemed to be a conclusion that frost mage was the go to talent tree for PvE action post Cataclysm. However, I am now an 82 mage specced in Arcane and Frost and whilst I do reasonable damage on frost, I do far more damage as Arcane and wonder if I am doing something wrong with my rotation.
On Frost I normally spam frostbolt, hit frostfire orb if it is up, Frostfire bolt on Brainfreeze proc and use Ice Lance when Fingers of Frost Proccs. I usually have icy veins on as well but I can barely hit above 4k according to recount during Lich King Heroics.
On Arcane I can easily hit 7k without much effort, with proper buffs i can get even higher and have seen crits of 25k+ my rotation doesn't really consist of anything more than arcane blast and arcane missles with the occasional Arcane barrage on cooldowns.
My Mage
Gear aint the best I will admit but I am not going to invest too heavily in it until i hit 85 for obvious reasons, so I appreciate that my gear is not the best and the enchants are not the best but this gear will change quite a bit between now and 85.
I believe the caps I should be looking to hit is 33% crit and 7% hit? irrespective of this the gear should more or less give similar results for both specs?
Post by
555017
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
soupladel
What I should have said in my original post is this is my first Mage, have been running with a warrior up till recently.
I appreciate totally what you are saying about the cape, believe me if there was something more suitable in my bag, i would have it on but this is the best i have currently.
You are right regarding Deep Freeze, i was using Deep Freeze on bosses, it seems such a waste on trash but i do appreciate the extra DPS it gives.
I was using this as a guide for frost talents
Frost Guide
Currently I have no interest in PvP side of things, so am not so worried about it.
Regarding my gear, I actually am not wearing them for ilevel in crease, it was more the best i could get within my means that was better than i had previously and increased crit or haste. I will be ditching the spirit related pieces the moments i can buy, craft or loot something better.
Post by
StrangerWifCandy
Currently I have no interest in PvP side of things, so am not so worried about it.
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT
Post by
373395
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
nickseng
TehCoolRich is only partly right; Arcane is not viable for 85, but not for the reason that he mentioned. In tank and spank fights, Arcane is only 3% behind fire, and ahead of Frost.
The problem with Arcane is with movement fights, which is does abysmally, and falls significantly behind Fire and Frost. Which is most of the Cata fights, essentially.
Post by
soupladel
To update this a little, I am now running cata dungeons and I do have to admit that mana is a bit of an issue on arcane, whilst it has not been a big problem so far, I can see that it will be on the harder dungeons and later heroics.
Post by
Vaeku
The other thing people haven't pointed out with frost is that because of it's high survivability it's a little better to use right now in cata dungeons. Once everyone gets the hang of normals and heroics you probably won't need to worry about survivability, but since most people are still in wrath mode the extra protection helps a lot.
Post by
555017
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
saethone
fire is very far above both frost and arcane for pve.
you need 8% hit for heroics, 17% for when you begin raiding
burning soul is far from useless, its nearly essential for cata encounters
skip icoc, you have plenty of freezes for solo questing
Post by
555017
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
saethone
If you think you can avoid all raid damage, by all means skip burning soul. Looking through the top progression raiders, about 80% of the mages in there are using 3/3. Especially being new to mage it would be a very worthwhile investment.
Also, theres not much point in speccing for trash. If you can't kill the trash withotu ICoC you won't be able to kill the boss - and half of trash in dungeons/raids is not freezable anyway. Between pet freeze, frostbolt, and frostfire orb you'll have plenty of FoF procs to not be useless on trash.
Post by
Rinkotsu
Saethone, Burning soul is a waste of Talent points.
I see where you are coming from, since cata has a lot more stuff which will hurt a whole raid it seems like speccing into this talent which reduces my cast time would benefit me!
No, that is wrong.
Most mechanics that i can think of are avoidable, from heroics up to BWD, BoT, ToFW. A good DPS doesn't have to rely on the fact that he or she will negate lost casting time from getting hit. you must rely on on your awareness to get you out of the fire, or AoE effect that you are most likely taking damage from. Lets face it, nothing is going to be Single Target on you, that is a tanks job... and that is where lost cast time matters. Hence, PvP Talent. Not Essential in PvE.
If you can show me a mechanic where having Burning Soul is a DPS gain, i welcome it :)
And, No Imp CoC! thats ludicrous. Frost PvE (raids, heroics and questing) is based upon freezing your target! You gain an large amount of Crit chance against Frozen targets, so why would you avoid a 100% Freeze with a short Cooldown?
You are correct about the hit caps, but also reiterating it from my above post.
ayup.
These talents have been required for PvE since vanilla. They aren't new. Every class needs to take them if they have a cast time. Do you know how many bosses have a Nova (Shazzrah/Rivendare in Strat/etc)? What about random targets for spells? (Kel'Thuzad/Setesh).
You're just making yourself look dumb by saying Burning Soul is not a required talent. Especially since the alternative is Fire Blast for fire spec.
So Personal Preference > Numbers. Do what you want to do, and if you are skilled enough the output will be acceptable, and often times at or near the top of the DPS charts.
My personal preference is to not wipe my raid because I could've pulled more DPS to save healer mana.
Post by
143599
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