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Heroic Issues.
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Post by
321294
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Post by
skribs
Well, if I have 50% smooth heroics and 50% fail ones (and I stay for those) I'm going to end up spending maybe an hour or less in the smooth one, and 2-3 hours in the fail one, meaning that despite a 1:1 ratio, it's really a 1:3 ratio of time spent with fail groups. That adds to the perception that more groups are fail than there really are.
Then you have to define what you consider fail. I think everyone in heroics should be over 10k DPS, for example, but because it's still only 5-mans I think 7k is acceptable. Other people will say "they're not bad" at someone doing 4k DPS, or will say "you're fail" at people doing "only" 11k.
If your definition of "fail" is that a group is never going to get through a heroic, then yes I'd agree with you that it probably falls around 5-10%. I could theoretically carry groups through most fights, as long as they are capable of moving out of 1-shot abilities (the tank and on most fights at least 1 DPS) or the dungeon doesn't have double healer trash. I've done VP runs, for example, where I'm pulling 15k HPS for a few minutes before I run OOM, due to no CC, no focus fires, and no interrupts on the second-to-last trash pack.
If, on the other hand, your definition of "fail" is a group where you have to severely carry someone (someone who consistently gets destroyed by fight mechanics, DPS who are under 7k - especially when they're all under, tanks who cant hold threat, people who break CC), then I would say 60%+ of them are fail groups, and 90% of them include at least one fail player.
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226992
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343360
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580100
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Post by
Porcell
Communication and Patience; lack of these two things is what causes the majority of PuGs to fail. The remainder fail because of uncorrectable problems.
I've had poor groups where there's no communication, something goes wrong, there's no patience, and people rage and quit.
On the other hand I've run numerous times where someone steps up and says "I haven't done this before." Then it's actually quite fun to go through and explain things as we reach certain points. The big one for me recently was Stonecore, on my healer, and explaining every mechanic to the tank. Hopefully the DPS were watching too and learning something.
If you don't know what's going on, ASK! If you wipe, RELEASE, DO BETTER, and DON'T COMPLAIN.
Post by
321294
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Post by
iDelorean
So I've seen a crazy amount of people complaining about the LFD tool and going on about how so and so group kicked someone for stupid reasons and etc.
But honestly. I've never had a single issue running heroics and I almost exclusively do it through the LFD tool. People complain and say that they have to do it with guildies now because it's so hard and other people fail and so on. Why can't most of you PuG? Honestly, I'm genuinely curious.
Some people have higher thresholds and expectations than other groups.
I have no patience for anyone who cannot perform the basics of their role, and I do not feel like I should have to tell them that they NEED to interrupt a cast that is possible to interrupt. Heroics are a stepping stone to raids, and I am not going to carry someone who can't pull their weight - even though I could.
It's like
9 out of 10 players would interrupt a cast made by a player in a duel. But it suddenly doesn't matter in PvE, even though you know, it hits for like 30% of my health, or in a particular case, 95%+ of my health.
They have defensive CDs and Abilities like Enraged Regeneration, Ice Block, Lichborne Death Coil spam/Death Strike/Icebound Fortitude/Anti-Magic Shield, Avenging Wrath/Hand of Sacrifice/Hand of Protection/Divine Protection/Divine Shield, Feint, Deterrence, etc. on their bars and the buttons are just there to be pretty since they only played mediocre content that never actually required them to use any of their abilities to be worth half a crap in a group.
Post by
GDkitty
Its all in perspective.
I have heard the argument that someone should be doing 10k for a heroic or not be in there..
You take some classes and compare to others at a certain lvl of gear, some just naturaly are doing more dmg than the other (Compare say me ele shaman and my warrior, same amount of lvl of gear.. both doing proper rotations/abilities, etc. warrior pulls 2.5k more.. always has pulled more.).
Yes, if someone is in all 346 and pulling 3k.. something is wrong.. but if someones pulling 7+ thats still good... yes the dungeon may take a LITTLE longer, but its still doable.
Everyone in heroics, seems to expec everyone IN that heroic, to be geared in full heroic gear already, and be doing DPS of a full heroic geared person. Not everyone is that way.
THIS is the reason i dont pug that often :P
Post by
581897
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Post by
skribs
TKitch, there are elitists out there. Well, I am an elitist, but not to the level of some. There were some people in WotLK who wouldn't queue with a tank who was under 30k HP, when I remember most tanks in 3.0 were running 20k-22k HP when they were just getting defense capped. I refused to run with tanks who were not defensive capped, but that was for a different reason.
The thing is, there's a line where you're expecting people to be competent in the role to the degree required for the run to be smooth. Go too far above that line (e.g. "you need 10k+ to do heroics") and you're an elitist. Go too far below that line (e.g. "Oh he's doing 4k, that's not bad") and you're a softy willing to carry.
Personally, I feel no sympathy towards those who are under the line that get kicked from heroics. People say "have to start somewhere"...yeah, well start in normal modes. Get rep, get gear, get practice, and then come back when you can do 7k+.
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373395
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218246
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174790
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Post by
pezz
Sometimes you can't win though. I had a group the other day tell me they all stopped reading what I was saying because I talked way too much. I expected it from my girlfriend but not the other three. :(
Funnily enough, that was one of the smoothest heroics I'd ever run. No wipes through a whole SFK (though I did skip Springvale).
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