This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
Suggestions for Tankadin build?
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
581897
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Elorivan
Being a good tank and holding aggro doesn't mean that boss encounters won't have AoE damage phases.
No, 20% for 6 seconds probably won't save any one person, but it sure is going to save your healers a lot of damage they would have had to otherwise heal. More mana for your healers means people get to live that much longer.
On progression content, where people are learning the fights, a point in DG is going to benefit your party/raid more than a point in any other "filler" talent. DG is a good choice whether you are main- or off-tanking.
I dont see how i can sacrifice anything from here for a talent i am hardly ever going to use. They may be flavour but they are flavour that fit myplaystyle. DG doesnt.
Hell i am even specced for it
You say that taking DG would break your spec because you can't take a point from anywhere else in your build... and yet you admit that you have taken it. Linking to a spec you don't use as support for your argument reduces the validity of your argument.
Being specced into a cool-down and never using it is worse than placing that talent point elsewhere.
Post by
Dragonzero
oook, DG is great for the raid because there is some of the boss in Cata will do aoe just like 1st boss do bonestorm in ICC. And so can dps avoid that aoe ... No because it a mess aoe and random aoe.
Bring DG is very important for the farther raid in Cata and improve the players skill for know what to do for later run the raid again.
DG is the life saver and if you don't care about the player with you that didn't need DG then they will think you are bad tank or elitist.
I agreed to Synectics
Why so elitist?
For me, the party surviving is the most important part of pulls and bosses. You know why? Not surviving means no loot. No loot means a ghost run back to the instance. And that's lost time. I don't care if the wipe was because a DPS stood in the fire -- it's still a wipe. I can either hold my chin high and snidely say, "Wasn't my fault." Or I can do everything in my power to help us survive the pull, even if it means turning the dragon so they aren't standing in front of it anymore, even though they're the one who moved to that spot in the first place.
I would MUCH rather save someone's ass and make it through the pull, and then brag about how awesome I am that I can both cover my responsibility and save a newer player, than have one or more people on a pull die. I pride myself on my groups living through an entire instance. Part of this is me holding aggro and not dying. Another part is helping newer players, or players who haven't seen an encounter, and explaining mechanics so that we can get through it
AS A GROUP
.
Since you haven't done the new instances, I understand you may not have a scope on how much tougher regular dungeons have gotten -- especially when you factor in how many players haven't seen them yet. You can do your job perfectly, but if DPS die, you'll probably not survive a pull anymore because a healer WILL go OOM. If a healer dies, it's very unlikely even a DPS with heals will be able to keep a tank up. If a tank dies, fugetaboutit.
And where are you putting that one single point from Divine Guardian that's so much more important at level 85? I find my build to be just fine with a point "wasted" there. /shrug.
tl;dr Being stubborn and right can also mean being dead. Being helpful can mean more loot faster. We're all noobs to Cata.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Raleandris
Zakkhar, you don't take Divine Guardian
because you never did content where it was a mandatory raid cooldown.
Checking out your warrior earlier today you have... pretty much zero heroic ICC experience, and no hardmode ulduar experience that I can see (at least not when it was current). The EU armory is down, so I can't check exactly. My point is, raids on normal difficulty, and wrath heroic 5 mans were jokes, from UK at 70 all the way to the LK in ICC25 on normal.
The fact that you cannot forsee any possible situation where a 6 second barkskin across the entire raid is beneficial, then I can not see how you have any grounding in this discussion. When my guild was progressing on Marrowgar 25H, we were still in mostly ToGC25 and some 264 gear. With only 5% buff (we killed LK the week before 5%) bonestorm hurts A LOT on heroic. Between Holy Paladins and the Prot Paladin, we were rolling Divine Guardians across the raid as often as possible during those phases. Could we have done it without it? Probably. Was it easier with it up? Absolutely.
If you are so self-centered about trying to keep your party alive, then perhaps you're playing the wrong game. Not making use of all of the abilities at your disposal, especially one as powerful as DG, and for the benefit of the group, makes YOU the bad player.
Also:
This
is more or less the core tanking build at 85. You have 7 more points to place in more or less filler talents. Most people will probably want to retain PoJ, so 2 into Imp Judgment and 2 into PoJ leaves 3. There's really no choices left but Divine Guardian and Guarded by the Light at that point. That 1 point you seem so worried about isn't exactly being pulled out of some super-important talent.
Post by
Squishalot
I dont see discussion as a situation were people meet and one is right others are wrong and they are fighting so the others can agree this one person is right.
I see a discussion as a situation where people with different opinions meet and talk about their opinions in a civilised manner.
I've pointed this out before, Zakkhar, you come across as unnecessarily aggressive, which goes completely against your call for people to talk about opinions in a civilised manner.
The second thing you said in this thread is:
Sounds like you are either bad yourself or run with baddies.
You see - unnecessarily aggressive. You fired the first shot.
In relation to the following quote:
There is one. Being a good tank and only one taking major damage.
... it's clear that Blizzard created raid damage to tax healers and give them something else to focus on other than the tanks. By definition, reduced raid damage during peaks is a good thing, and allows healers to switch focus back to the tank faster / earlier. Whether it's better than (insert talent here) is a separate question. (Which optional WoG talent did you put your point in instead?) Your statement that 'being the only one taking major damage' is not a reason not to take it, because DG isn't designed to help reduce damage for when you lose aggro.
To give you an example of unavoidable big raidwide damage outside the tank's control, you don't even need to look further than VoA. Using DG on the 3rd/4th stack of Whiteout when you're at risk of wiping would be enough to justify having it on your action bars. There's nothing a tank can do to stop DPS and healers from dying to Frozen Orbs in that fight. The raid damage is entirely determined by how good the healers / DPS are, not the tank.
Anyone else got something constructive to say? I learn a lot from these discussions. Hell, i changed Hallowed ground for Reckoning due to one. I decided i am not using it (consecration) a lot anyway and reckoning got some kicks now.
Glad we convinced you otherwise. Didn't you recently say though that your Consecration was doing more damage than your Holy Wrath, or did I mix that around the wrong way?
Post by
Raleandris
Glad we convinced you otherwise. Didn't you recently say though that your Consecration was doing more damage than your Holy Wrath, or did I mix that around the wrong way? Other way around. I still haven't convinced him that his Consecration is a better use of the GCD on a stationary target.
Post by
Synectics
To give you an example of unavoidable big raidwide damage outside the tank's control, you don't even need to look further than VoA. Using DG on the 3rd/4th stack of Whiteout when you're at risk of wiping would be enough to justify having it on your action bars. There's nothing a tank can do to stop DPS and healers from dying to Frozen Orbs in that fight. The raid damage is entirely determined by how good the healers / DPS are, not the tank.
Another great WotLK example would be Putricide in ICC once he goes Phase 3. There's absolutely nothing you can do to stop the AOE damage to the raid. But if they take 20% less damage? That can make the difference between a player dying or living.
My guild had him down to literally 5k HP left in one of our early learning fights before the only people left standing were the two tanks. 20% less damage taken for the raid, even for 6 seconds, would have made the difference.
It doesn't take that sort of situation for it to be useful. And who is to say that using it or not will make or break the fight? There's no way to tell if you use it and still succeed, that you still would have without. But there's a chance that you could wipe the fight and been so close, and thought, "If only!"
I understand it's not your playstyle -- trust me. I always spec into what is more useful to me than what is "right." I've always spent points in reduced HoJ cooldown, while other tanks might take WoG's 30% chance to clearcast. So I won't argue your point there at all, because I totally understand. Just know that the tanks who DO use it aren't bad, and they aren't saving baddies -- they're simply providing utility and survivability to a fight. Once we've all cleared hard modes, I'm sure no one will spec into such a survivability talent. But for now, don't be surprised by players that do -- and don't think they're bad because of it. :P
EDIT:
I get more fun from playing certain character or with certain people than the actual content i am in.
Why do you want to do raids? For more loot?
And I often run dungeons with guildmates, and my Paladin is my only 85 for a reason. The fun for me is in exploring the new content, learning it, figuring it out, and succeeding. And I'd love to not only see the content in raids, but be able to down the bosses and be successful. And for that, we all need gear to be able to survive. Like you said -- it's a tool. It's not the reason I'm there.
You can bet your ass I'm gonna use DG when I need to.
I will too. Its about me surviving and keeping agro. If DG helps me survive i will sure use it. Hell i am even specced for it, not only because SotP is such lackluster talent.
You say that taking DG would break your spec because you can't take a point from anywhere else in your build... and yet you admit that you have taken it. Linking to a spec you don't use as support for your argument reduces the validity of your argument.
Lovely you took out the context. I am specced for WoG, not for DG.
Perhaps a mistype, but your original statement made it seem like you DID have DG.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
719730
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Synectics
^that might be true about Divine Guardian at 80-85 but at 60 it's next to %^&* to take.
...exactly what I said, unless you just meant to emphasize it:
I'm not sure it'll be extremely useful
before 80-85
, as you'll probably outgear them enough that you can just AOE the snot out of everything from Outland through Northrend.
It wouldnt if you did it properly.
Utility and survivability which is extremly minor (unless we talk about unavoidable raidwide damage mechanics) and not needed if things are done correctly.
I fail to see what we "did wrong" when it comes to unavoidable raidwide damage at the end of Putricide on Phase 3. We were undergeared some -- I was tanking with a 4.5k gearscore with only the 5% raid-wide buff at the time -- but we were nailing every mechanic properly, even though it was only our second or third attempt as a group. I believe it came down to a gearing issue -- and that little 20% damage reduction could have made the difference.
I've agreed -- it's minor. Very rarely will it save a wipe like it would have for us, and a group who can't down a boss isn't going to suddenly be able to if they pull in a Paladin tank to replace their Warrior.
But that's not really what it's meant for. It's meant to help the entire raid take less damage in an AOE phase, which takes stress off of your healers. If you don't like providing that utility, that's fine. But again, I fail to see where a tank who helps the group as a whole is "bad" because they are not only filling their responsibilities, but helping their raid-mates with theirs.
Post by
Varaconn
Less stress on your healers means they have the mana and the cooldowns to deal with some other hitting the fan later.
It's not about a miraculous raid-saving moment, or the difference between a 30% wipe and a kill (though, depending on the situation, it could be...) it's about doing what you can to make the healer's job easier and making the entire encounter more comfortable.
When we first started doing LK (do not ask me why, I'll never understand it) my group never, ever had a problem with defiles, we aced them. For some reason though, we occasionally had issues with Valks. They usually went down, but it was a bit iffy. What did I do? I was main tanking, so I specced into Improved Hammer of Justice. Now, I could HoJ every single Valk, as soon as it spawned. Could we have done it without it?
Absolutely
. However, I did it because it removed any chance of Valks going wrong. Every single time one spawned, it was dead as the stun was wearing off.
This makes the encounter more comfortable. Adding control to one aspect gives you leeway with another. In my opinion, Divine Guardian fills the same niche. It sounds to me that, at this point, you're just being stubborn, or you're a genuinely self-centered player who believes purely in the "work to rule" mindset.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.