This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
How many people hate the new idiot proof talent trees?
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
xaratherus
It seems like wow has been targeted towards kids in early teens more and more with every patch. Now with the new talent trees there are pretty much no spec variations.
Show me someone with a moderate to major spec variation in the old talent trees, and I'll show you someone who was losing 40% of their effectiveness due to a bad hybrid spec.
You can only be basically one of the 3 specs exactly like everyone else. The talent choices are so obvious and easy to figure out, you will never have to experiment with different specs or make sacrifices. You know what I mean?
I understand what you mean; I disagree that it is more of an issue now than before. The cookie cutter specs were there pre-4.0 - unless you wanted to sacrifice effectiveness in order to spec in some bizarre fashion.
Additionally, it made almost every class feel utterly generic until you were within the last 20 levels of the game, simply because they kept having to push the iconic talents further down the trees to avoid 'imba' hybrid builds.
For the sake of argument, what hybrid specs were you using? If you can find a site hosting the old trees, and make up one of the specs, someone can point out why "ur doin it rong'. I'm not arguing that hybrid specs wouldn't be a nice idea; I'm arguing that thinking that you
had
the option to hybridize, and have now lost it, is invalid, because hybridizing has never been effective (save for a false sense of making a player feel 'unique').
Post by
Monday
Has anyone else noticed that hate threads always try to throw the term (or a variation thereof), "So all the kids/teens"?
Post by
xaratherus
Has anyone else noticed that hate threads always try to throw the term (or a variation thereof), "So all the kids/teens"?
It's an attempt to generally disparage the intellect of the 'people I don't agree with' group by comparing them to a group which, strangely enough, may actually be more intelligent or mature than the person making the generalization.
Not saying that is the case here, by the way - just that generalizations are frequently made, and just as frequently invalid.
Post by
Orranis
I don't thin they're worse then the old one's, though I do miss the nice look of the old one's, unfortunately now we have a 'cookie-cutter' spec where you have you're baseline spec and then you pick the least-useless filler talents (i.e. On a Pale Horse for Frost). At least back then I knew that 100% of my talents were dedicated to making me better at what I was doing.
Post by
168916
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
422216
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
xaratherus
For the sake of argument, what hybrid specs were you using? If you can find a site hosting the old trees, and make up one of the specs, someone can point out why "ur doin it rong'.
This simply isn't true. Demo/destruction used to be a very competitive build for warlocks
While
this
is by no means comprehensive, I would ask that you provide a sample of such a spec. While I don't play a Warlock, my roommate does, and I did most of the research for him on his talent build, and never ran across anyone claiming that a hybrid Demo/Destro spec was viable, at least in WotLK.
and tri-specs (i.e. taking no final talents) used to be considered viable for rogues and DKs
Tri-spec for DK was viable for a few months after release, for the purposes of dual wielding, but was rendered nonviable (I think) before ToC came out. I can't comment on Rogues, but from what I've
found
in looking into it, a tri-spec Rogue hasn't been viable since BC.
And that's not even touching on the point that if a talent system doesn't give you any ways to "do it wrong", it effectively doesn't give you any way to do it right either.
I'm not certain what you mean here. If you can't do something wrong, then by definition whatever you do is going to be acceptable. You're contradicting yourself.
As things are now, the sum total of speccing for PvE is this: choose whichever tree suits your fancy, skip the PvP talents, and if your effectiveness is more than 2-3% below the other trees, don't worry about it because blizzard will be adjusting things next patch.
Which was the sum total of speccing for PvE
before
, save that someone who was not aware of research sites like Wowhead and Elitist Jerks would put points into talents that were ineffective for their role/build, and get yelled-at by others for "doing it wrong".
Some may think that's a good system, in that it removes (nearly all) the advantage of worrying about "hidden" details of theorycrafting, but let's not be pretending it doesn't have any drawbacks.
Oh, I'm not claiming it has no drawbacks. I'm claiming that the drawbacks that you see simply are not drawbacks at all, in my opinion. Making a system overly complicated to appease the people who like to nit-pick the system is poor game design, when those theorycrafters are a very slim minority of your overall player base.
Post by
320076
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
102178
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pezz
For the sake of argument, what hybrid specs were you using? If you can find a site hosting the old trees, and make up one of the specs, someone can point out why "ur doin it rong'.
This simply isn't true. Demo/destruction used to be a very competitive build for warlocks, and tri-specs (i.e. taking no final talents) used to be considered viable for rogues and DKs. There was a time when the single strongest PvE rogue build was a tri-spec. There could have been others; I don't follow theorycrafting very closely.
Blizzard has wanted to kill hybrid specs for a long time, and they've been looking for a good way to do it. Now, it's perfectly fine to disagree with that position, but if you do, blame the dev philosophy, not the 4.0 talent trees. You're just shooting the messenger, at the moment.
Post by
168916
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
206732
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
168916
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
2259
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pezz
Still, in talking about rotations Blizzard consistently repeats that they want to have a certain amount of opportunity for mistakes, to separate better players from worse. I just think their new trees go against that principle, is all. (Mostly, anyway - they've sort of shifted all meaningful customization into those last ten points that come after L70.)
And to be precise, I'm shooting not at the messenger but at someone who agrees with the message. ;)
My shooting the messenger reference was to saying 'I don't like how these new trees remove hybrid specs!' when they're just the way that the devs are letting us know that hybrid specs are gone. I wasn't referring to this thread.
They talk about a degree of failure possibility in rotations, but then look at, say, prime glyphs. Blizzard has said that those should not be terribly taxing. There'll be three or four that are clear pure DPS upgrades, and all pretty similar ones, at that. Then it's the major glyphs where you get your customizability and your 'what do I actually need to be thinking about in the fights I'm doing?' room. That's very similar to the current talent trees. Considering talents in light of glyphs, it all seems pretty consistent.
Post by
239616
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
161859
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
vic6string
Believe it or not, some people do not raid. Yes, there is a theoretical best build for raiding, but some people will never raid. The best part of this game is that it is not just about one thing. You can raid, quest, do 5-man's, solo stuff, arena, bg, world pvp, or anything else you want to do. The new talent system basically says the only things that matter are arena and raids min/maxing.
Post by
2259
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Tenjen
the new system offered me more and better choices for a wide variety of good talent tree setups
the talent tree change is not catering to casuals. its catering to a much better game with less waste of space and better use of space. The old talents had vast cookie cutting where the utility talents were not available. Anything less made you ineffective, sure enjoy the game and all that but we enjoyed the game less effective than we could be and it made a difference in raid content.
the new talent tree's allow us to choose all we need to be effective AND lets us have points to throw into utility abilities, in my assassination spec infact i have multiple choices to invest my points in.
i still see idiots screwing up these tree's though.
These new talent tree's are Mohammad Ali and the old tree's were George Foreman. Both powerful in their own ways but we know who won that fight and why.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.