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10.2.5
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10.2.6
Hammer of the Righteous
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Post by
blademeld
Consecration's statment says 720 damage over 10 seconds, ticking twice, that's only 1400 damage per mob over 10 seconds.
Your argument is flawed because you assume scaling for Holy Wrath but ignore scaling for Consecration.
Using theck's numbers at T10 gear, as I mentioned above, you can clearly see that Cons > HW over 30 seconds.
Theck's numbers at ~12000 AP and ~7000 Cons damage talented means that it's 5000 damage at 12000 AP untalented, as I mentioned before. Subtracting base damage of 720, you get ~4250 for 12000 AP, or about 35% AP.
HW scales at 30% SP, which is ~15% AP
That means that at 3000 HW, Cons should be doing ~2700 before talents, again, multiplied by number of mobs as to HW's division.
Edit: Just got out of class, brain not working completely. Can't figure out the numbers, but moving on.
EDIT: Also, Holy Wrath has no cap. A pally ran me through Stratholme (Original), gathered entire rooms, wrath'd/stunned them all.
The "cap" is referring to HotR, not HW.
The "cap" is that AoE damage is multiplied by the number of mobs, but it stops at 10 mobs, meaning it does the same total damage to 10 mobs as it would to 100 mobs.
Post by
616871
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
presleyster
Well that proves it would be best against mobs 10+.
However, theck's numbers seem to be assuming max gear, and my numbers are average numbers from personal observations, which 80% of casual players use. Hardcore players (always raiding, max gear, etc) will obviously have far different results.
Also, if this "Cap" you're referring to is for HotR, doesn't it NOT scale versus how many mobs there are? I thought it was the same damage to all mobs, regardless... Or is the second cap for HW? I think you got me confused on that last paragraph.
HW has an amount it will hit for (let's call it 5000), and will split that damage across all the targets in range.
HotR will hit everything for N damage on up to 10 targets. After 10 targets, it will hit for (N*10)/number of targets. Of course, each hit has a chance to crit.
Consecration
may
do more damage in the simulators given great gear, but the average player won't notice a huge difference between hitting Consecration or hitting HW. The spell has its place, and the best players will know when to use it so they can eke out that theoretical 50dps. I, for one, simply don't need to live on that razor's edge.
Post by
blademeld
Well that proves it would be best against mobs 10+
Nope, I can't figure out how Cons scales, but if Cons does the same damage per cast as HW, it will surpass HW at 2+ mobs as HW damage never increases but Cons damage is multiplied by number of mobs.
To simplify:
Cons damage per 30 seconds * number of targets
versus
HW damage over 30 seconds (2 casts).
if HW is 3x stronger than Cons, then at 3 mobs Cons is equal to HW, and so on.
my numbers are average numbers from personal observations, which 80% of casual players use.
Your Consecration only hits for 720? That's impossible even without gear.
Also, if this "Cap" you're referring to is for HotR, doesn't it NOT scale versus how many mobs there are? I thought it was the same damage to all mobs, regardless... Or is the second cap for HW? I think you got me confused on that last paragraph.
HW isn't a conventional AoE, it does the same amount of damage regardless of the number of mobs involved.
To make it easier, HW damage is split among all mobs, but other AoEs, such as Blizzard, scales up to damage x 10 mobs and spreads that damage among all available targets, unless the target number is below 10.
If Blizzard does 100 damage per mob, at 1 mob, it does 100 damage, at 2 mobs, 200 damage.
At 10 mobs it does 1000 damage, 100 per mob, but at 20 mobs, it does 1000 damage, or 50 damage per mob.
Post by
presleyster
If Blizzard does 100 damage per mob, at 1 mob, it does 100 damage, at 2 mobs, 200 damage.
At 10 mobs it does 1000 damage, 100 per mob, but at 20 mobs, it does 1000 damage, or 50 damage per mob.
Wouldn't this be sooo much easier if they just put in an equation editor? ;)
Post by
blademeld
Consecration
may
do more damage in the simulators given great gear, but the average player won't notice a huge difference between hitting Consecration or hitting HW. The spell has its place, and the best players will know when to use it so they can eke out that theoretical 50dps. I, for one, simply don't need to live on that razor's edge.
Not necessarily.
Assuming you have mana to spare or you have Consecration talented, and that the packs are static:
If the pack lives for 13+ seconds, use Consecration. If under 13 use HW.
AS, HotR, Cons means that 13 seconds is optimal for Consecration damage.
You should be able to estimate how long the packs will last.
Post by
616871
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
blademeld
If you compare the DPS, an instant-3000 damage is 3000 DPS (comparitively), where as a DoT doing 3000 over 10 seconds is 300 DPS.
You're missing the point and misusing the term "DPS"
The 3000 damage is 3000 "instant damage", the Consecration is 300*number of mobs "instant damage"
If there are 10 mobs, that's equal instantly. If there are 5 mobs, it becomes equal in 2 seconds. If there are 15 mobs, well, Cons killed HW.
Post by
Synectics
I love how on the Paladin forums, this post about grinding low-level dungeons at high-level:
Wow, I didn't realize they tweaked HotR to hit *all* nearby enemies.
I'm in SW Stockades right now, (Doin explorer, and I wanted the acheive, since I never did it while leveling) and I am pulling a wing at a time, and just hitting dozens of mobs per attack. Consecrate, Holy Wrath, and Hammer? Absolute fun!
Low level mob farming = splatterfest!
...can become a theorycrafting thread. :3 You Paladin regulars are awesome (you know who you are).
Post by
blademeld
Apparently Consecration coefficient is in the tooltips: Trigger spell
or 3.2% AP and SP per second for 10 seconds.
Assuming low AP and SP of 4750 AP and 1750 SP that's an additional 208 damage per second on top of the 72 base, total 280 per second or 2800 over 10 seconds.
1750 SP gives 525 additional damage to HW with a base of 2153 for a total of 2678 damage per use with a bonus 30% critical strike chance from Wrath of the Lightbringer.
... which seems a bit low to me...
Post by
616871
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
581897
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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