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TANKS! Slow the Hell Down!
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Post by
93865
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Post by
146856
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120504
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Post by
Porcell
lol if u pull like that when I am healing good luck keep yourself alive coz I am not going to even to try. Why pull the whole room? So you can show off your little E-peen? I am sorry when when I do heroic I like to do it in a relax manner and not trying over over stress myself. Have you even consider if the healer is willing to heal you or get all work up about it in case you die? Have you ask to see if the dps is ok with that? What if one of the dps decided to dps while you are still pulling coz NO ONE knows you are going to pull the whole room and since you have so many mobs you on you can't even see which one you have aggro on.
So you want to use 1 GCD out of 10 as a healer, rather than actually have to push some buttons?
The "take my ball and go home" attitude is bit childish here. You aren't going to heal him because he doesn't pull the way you want him to? Do your job and shut up, and be glad you are getting your JPs more quickly.
Post by
343330
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Post by
LookOut
lol if u pull like that when I am healing good luck keep yourself alive coz I am not going to even to try. Why pull the whole room? So you can show off your little E-peen? I am sorry when when I do heroic I like to do it in a relax manner and not trying over over stress myself. Have you even consider if the healer is willing to heal you or get all work up about it in case you die? Have you ask to see if the dps is ok with that? What if one of the dps decided to dps while you are still pulling coz NO ONE knows you are going to pull the whole room and since you have so many mobs you on you can't even see which one you have aggro on.
Let me get this straight, you would prefer to go easy mode and just /follow the tank, being bored because there's nothing to heal, rather than actually having something on your hands? Dear god man. As if pulling an entire room in a heroic is stressful (when overgearing, maybe you're still in blues or something, I dunno).
And yes, healers have actually asked me to go faster before because they were bored if I went in at my normal pace :p
Furthermore, you obviously aren't using your V button to see enemy name plates, else you'd see who you have aggro on just fine.
It's not fun unless it's a challenge.
And heroics are no longer a challenge.
^this. They are no longer a challenge, so we make em a challenge. If you want a relaxed snorefest, go solo something.
Post by
apvalceanu
They are no longer a challenge, so we make em a challenge. If you want a relaxed snorefest, go solo something.What you said here is just as valid as what i am going to say:
"I am a fresh 80 and I do heroics for equipment. If heroics are no longer a challenge for you, go do raids or something, and leave heroics for us who actually need them."
This being said - i disagree to both these attitudes. People should be more tolerant on both sides.
Post by
LookOut
"I am a fresh 80 and I do heroics for equipment. If heroics are no longer a challenge for you, go do raids or something, and leave heroics for us who actually need them."
O look what I posted!
As if pulling an entire room in a heroic is stressful (
when overgearing
, maybe you're still in blues or something, I dunno).
A tank in blues will not pull an entire room (at least I hope so)
A DPS in blues ... well who the **** cares, mobs will go down slower, that's all.
A healer in blues doesn't matter if the tank is overgearing the content, since there won't be much healing needed anyways.
That said, doesn't the dungeon finder match you up with equally geared people? It's been ages since I went to 5mans on my tanking main (because, as you so nicely pointed out, I don't need them anymore).
Post by
apvalceanu
I very much agree to your tank / healer / DPS in blue items :P But as last i heard, LFD used to put higher geared people together with lower geared ones exactly because Blizz wanted to cover the possible negative outcome of an instance - the better equiped players would help improve the chances of success and at sate time would help in the process of gearing up players that are fresh to 80.
I might be wrong but that is what i last heard.
Post by
Porcell
That said, doesn't the dungeon finder match you up with equally geared people? It's been ages since I went to 5mans on my tanking main (because, as you so nicely pointed out, I don't need them anymore).
As far as I know there has never been any sort of gear matching in the LFG. The only thing is a gear threshold for ToC and ICC instances.
Post by
Porcell
"Smarter Group Matching
The new system will now work to match at least one experienced player for the assigned dungeon with less experienced players in the group. It will more carefully match class types, and will more consistently match players of equal levels for the dungeon chosen. The interface will also allow players to see how many players are looking for groups as well as the average wait time of groups that the tool has formed. "
That's from the initial information released before LFG was implemented.
Honestly I don't know how true it is. In all likelihood the matchmaking was scrapped. Every group I've been in has seemed totally random. Sometimes I get green wearing scrubs, sometimes I get three 277 wearing DPS.
It's random.
Post by
obiwaynekenobi
Also, tanking on my level 36 Warrior I notice the same thing in Scarlet Monastery; DPS will rush ahead and pull extra mobs while there are still some alive. Now, I try to pull at a comfortable pace; a good deal slower than I do on my pally since I'm still getting used to Warrior tanking and there's a "ramp up" time to when I have solid aggro on everything (just charging in and TClapping isn't enough, unlike the Pally where one HotR is usually enough to hold threat). Almost always I'll have some mage or hunter (or lately a kitty druid, or Warlock with Felguard) shoot another mob which will run over and bring friends, at which point it's a mad dash to gather them all up. Now, I know that in SM:L it's not a big deal and the mobs don't pose a threat, but it's still rather frustrating and, dare I say it, rude on the part of the DPS to ignore the tank. What I do on the Warrior is grab a group, beat on them a couple of seconds to build rage, then move forward to another group or if Charge is ready (I specced into Warbringer ASAP for precisely this reason) charge another group. I don't need DPS to pull extra guys for me if they think I can handle bigger pulls; I'm going at a pace I'm comfortable with while I learn.
On my pally I go at a consistent pace, typically pulling a second group when the first is nearly dead so they die as the second group gets pulled in and threat gets established. I don't pull entire rooms because I don't see the point; it wastes resources and only serves to let DPS stroke their e-peens about their "leet DPS" on trash packs. Even with a geared healer (plus myself being a geared tank) I won't pull an entire room at once (e.g. that second room of DTK with all the ghouls and Aboms although I
have
done it in the past so my friend could see how much DPS she could pull as a fresh 80 hunter in there - she topped at over 10K), I pull packs at once and grab another pack as the first one is about to die, making a fluid transition without the hassle of trying to establish threat on a dozen enemies while DPS are just spamming their AOE.
In short: I don't mind chain-pulling, but I do it as a fluid transition not "let's aggro everything and rush around getting threat on everything". IMO the runs are much smoother for me this way.
Post by
obiwaynekenobi
"Smarter Group Matching
The new system will now work to match at least one experienced player for the assigned dungeon with less experienced players in the group. It will more carefully match class types, and will more consistently match players of equal levels for the dungeon chosen. The interface will also allow players to see how many players are looking for groups as well as the average wait time of groups that the tool has formed. "
That's from the initial information released before LFG was implemented.
I believe that it matches more experienced people with inexperienced people, but that it had the opposite effect: Blizzard figured the more experienced person would be helpful and willing to offer advice or, as selecting the dungeon guide icon says, "instructing the group in how to overcome the encounters" but what happened was the more experienced people were whining about being paired with "noobs" and "scrubs" because the run took more than 10 minutes to finish.
Post by
93865
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Post by
211100
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Post by
obiwaynekenobi
That's because there's no way for him to reply and still seem right :)
Nah, it's because arguing with Aestu is pointless. Like I said, I don't feel the need to justify it. I pull at what's comfortable for me, I've had no complaints thus far, and I've had my tanking skills complemented by what I would consider high-end raiders (#2 Horde guild on the server). So I feel I'm justified in thinking that I am good at what I do. I don't claim to be the best, but I do think I'm good at tanking and better than many tanks I've seen as DPS.
I still disagree with the mentality that it's "okay" to pull huge groups just because one can, because it leads to reckless DPS that foster this "gogogo" mentality and pull ahead without rushing. The only thing I will backtrack on is the idea that my way is the "One True Way", since it's all a matter of personal preference.
As much as I disagree with him, if Aestu is capable of pulling entire rooms and can live while doing so, he's within his rights to do it. I don't think it's a good way to tank dungeons, but it's one of those situations where it all boils down to personal preference and what one thinks one is capable of.
Post by
alexarose
This post seems to be going nowhere.
There seems to be a discrepancy between what speed you should pull, some say fast, some say slow. It seems to me that the ones that are posting here advocating fast chain pulls (I'm looking at you Aestu, and will use you as an example) are soooooo overgeared, and from your armory are sporting what looks like BiS in every slot. You have over double the hit points needed for a heroic run, and I would imagine half again the armor/avoidance (not including any procs from gear). As such you get hit roughly half as much and half as hard, while having twice as much of a health pool and probably doing 2-3x the amount of damage. I would think as well with being a paladin, you would use a gcd or two on a debuff that you could cleanse if you have solid agro, as well as give yourself a snap heal (use a holy charge for a word of glory, etc) if the healer wasn't close enough/looting/gathering, etc.
Long story short, you CAN handle the beating of a lot more mobs, and as a paladin, you have superb AoE threat ability, arguably the easiest class for it.
I would bet that the lesser geared tanks are the ones that made this post viable, and therefore were what Lil was talking about. What I mean is this: If someone runs with say you Aestu, and sees how smoothly you rip through an instance, then they do the same style pulling as they level (they may or may not have a smooth time doing so), or perhaps try it as soon as they hit heroics and find that it isn't nearly that simple. If you have a tank geared like you are, and a healer that is the same gear level you certainly are capable of those types of pulls (and have proof ;-)). But if the tank or healer can't handle all that as well as you can, then that is where the post stemmed from - a tank that is either pulling beyond their means, or the healer doesn't have the size heals needed to keep them up, etc...
I don't think the problem is with the speed of the runs as much as the mayhem that ensues when the tank isn't capable of handling the size of the group with enough AoE threat, and the healer can't keep them alive if they both aren't geared to handle it.
TL:DR
Speed pulls are only acceptable when the group can actually handle it, and make for a bad day if they can't.
Post by
378029
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Post by
apvalceanu
all you said hereThank you. This is the PERFECT example about what i mean with "there should be a bit of tolerance on both sides". Go as fast as you can considering the people you group with.
Post by
LookOut
well obviously if the healer asks you to slow down and you see them struggling or crap like that, you shouldn't go "fu nub, just keep up". No one likes a jackass in the group (and we've all had them in our groups sadly).
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