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Gearscore haters unite!
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Post by
311746
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MischievousLoki
The only difference between running pug raids with gearscore versus running them without gearscore is the raid leader can reject you based on gear level without having to look you up on the armory (and before that, he'd just inspect you once you got to the instance). The community didn't change, you just see it's effects sooner.
Before gearscore I've had people reject one of my characters because I had a single green, even though the rest of my gear was decent. They'd inspect me and just scan for purples, and stop as soon as they saw a green. I'd prefer someone just look at an average color coded number than use that method.
Post by
lonewarrior
Give your raid leader credit...he/she bent on the GS requirement because you spoke up and your friend was able to prove his/her abilities.
Raid lead:
"Hello fellow puggers! I am a great raid leader! I have access to the most powerful tools of raid leading! This mighty artifact called Gearscore enables me to compose the most successful groups!"
Pugger 1:
"Well, hi there! Might I join your raid, please?"
Raid lead:
"Of course not! My tools tell me you're not powerful enough, I am recruiting real heroes!"
Pugger 2:
"But he's really good, like really, really, really good - I mean totally good."
Raid lead:
"Allright then, Gearscore-approved random guy I found at the dalaran fountain, I trust your judgement."
So this deserves a credit?
I wasn't aware that you were in that raid and that's how the conversation went.
Like I said to anyone who actually can read...GS is tool...obvious this particular raid leader didn't use it as the be all end all for qualifying or the OP's friend would not have been in the raid.
Pro...hope your game play isn't as bad as your humor.
Post by
xaratherus
Aestu not be full of arrogance?
pfffffffffthahahahahaha
Post by
93865
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Kalisha
People seem to think that
everyone
got to raid before Gearscore existed. This is absolutely, positively
not
the case.
Raid leaders still checked people's gear. It just took longer. Gearscore didn't create this phenomenon, it streamlined the process (and gave people something to blame).
Gearscore isn't the problem, the way you're playing is the problem. WoW is an MMO.
Massively Multiplayer
. You can't play by yourself (which is essentially what pugging is - "I don't want to join a guild that's doing the stuff I want to do, I'm going to do those raids and on my terms and not have to bother with them!") and then expect to have access to every single thing in the game. MMO's aren't designed that way.
Go make friends
.
"But guilds won't take me because of my gearscore!" Then don't try to join a guild that's already so far ahead of you progression wise? There are plenty of guilds still puttering around in 10 man normal mode ICC that could use the warm body.
"But I like my guild that doesn't raid and can't leave them!" Then make friends with people that are doing those raids and see if they have a spot for you every once in a while. Friends do that kind of thing. Amazing concept I know.
TL;DR
- stop with the self defeatist attitude/trying to make excuses/trying to find something to blame, and go figure out what
you
need to do to see the things you want to in game.
Post by
lonewarrior
Not quite. It would be more accurate to say Gearscore is a symptom and not a cause of problems with the game community. There's a reason why we have it now and not in TBC when it might have mattered. Likewise, being as it is a symptom, the mod is useful to identify G-score baddies and remove them from raid.
but then your using Gearscore..only in reverse. :P
If we are defining baddies as ability to dps/heal/tank...then your using the score to correlate whether an individual is under performing based on it. Which is how it should be used. So when used properly GS can provide some insight and is not the evil invention it is being made out to be.
I'm not a big fan of player assess addons, as I've seen first hand the difference in abilities with players having similar gear score. Like I said...it's just information, you don't live and die by it.
If you run into someone who uses it as the sole basis for making raid invite decisions...well the simple solution is to start your own raid and then you can make your own rules for invites.
Post by
161859
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Pwntiff
but a good player with a significantly higher gearscore than another good player will almost always perform better.
I laff'd
I never said that.
This thread has done exactly what I predicted it would do. GS topics are taboo because it is impossible to have a civil discussion on the topic.
Post by
Liquoid
Reminds me of Godwin.
Post by
wolfeyoung
Okay, the idea of a gearscore has always been around, probably back as far as vanilla once raiding started, I can't say for sure, since I started playing during TBC. Why do I make this assumption?
Easy. When raiding TBC, a tank needed at least 12k hp to start KZ. A mage/Spriest/lock, whatever, needed something like 600 sp, and so on.
And those numbers were regularly checked. So the idea of a player checking a number related to another player's character in determining if said player had the gear for a particular content has always been around. Tanks it was HP, you had to ask about spellpower for healers, etc. I remember in chat it went, "lock lf SCC, 1200dps." Now it's "lock lf ICC 5800 gs". So what's the difference? None.
However, the issue I have with GS is that, before, a raid leader needed to know about each class in the game, needed to know each encounter in the raid, and what each class needed to do for each encounter. It's still true today, but now, due to gs, there are a lot of raid leaders that check for gs and achievements and assume that player knows what they are doing. First off, there's the difference in tactics per encounter. So one players tactics will differ from the others and if the raid leader doesn't understand all those tactics, then when a problem occurs, they can't figure out why it is failing. Two, imagine if a druid/pally had the achievement the raid leader was asking for. It doesn't prove anything. Pally/druids can be dps/tank/healer. An achievement doesn't mean they know the role they're signing up for.
I don't think that GS is the real problem, I believe that the average content is more easily puggable then in the past (and it is, so don't give that "show me your achievement crap" anyone that raided before WotLK will tell you, starting at SCC, pugging became very hard), making gs a lazy tool to rely on when forming a pug raid group.
Post by
xaratherus
This thread has done exactly what I predicted it would do. GS topics are taboo because it is impossible to have a civil discussion on the topic.
Every time someone creates a GS thread, Justin Bieber writes another song...
Post by
lonewarrior
All GS does is provide a crutch. It's easier to guess as a pug raid leader that someone highly geared, even if under performing, will put out enough numbers to satisfy raid requirement, rather then trying to guess if a similar lower geared unknown player will perform above his score.
If there is an addon out there that can correctly correlate a players abilities, please post it.
Otherwise what else do you have to go on besides individual inspections.
Like I've posted on another thread...gear progression has become too easy and has blurred the line between who is really good and who is not..but I don't want to bleed that thread into this one.
Post by
93865
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
517094
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
93865
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
xaratherus
Individual inspections are what a competent raid leader uses.
I'd kind of like a robot butler, but until they invent one, I'll be doing my own dishes. Until something is develped that is in any way not fully redundant with competent human judgment, competent raid leaders will do individual inspections.
Using Gearscore to potentially save a few minutes on setting up an ICC run - by revealing that no, I
don't
need you to hearth back to Dalaran because we don't want to carry someone with a GS of 3k - is a sign of competence.
Using Gearscore as the be-all, end-all of judgment, failing to inspect the person's gear - and then realizing that your 6k GS Warrior is wearing nothing but spell plate - is a sign of incompetence.
Arguing that use of a tool makes you incompetent by default is patently ridiculous. Misuse of a tool, or use of a tool to the exclusion of all else - that's incompetent.
Post by
lonewarrior
All GS does is provide a crutch. It's easier to guess as a pug raid leader that someone highly geared, even if under performing, will put out enough numbers to satisfy raid requirement, rather then trying to guess if a similar lower geared unknown player will perform above his score.
If there is an addon out there that can correctly correlate a players abilities, please post it.
Otherwise what else do you have to go on besides individual inspections.
Like I've posted on another thread...gear progression has become too easy and has blurred the line between who is really good and who is not..but I don't want to bleed that thread into this one.
Individual inspections are what a competent raid leader uses.
I'd kind of like a robot butler, but until they invent one, I'll be doing my own dishes. Until something is develped that is in any way not fully redundant with competent human judgment, competent raid leaders will do individual inspections.
But in essence individual inspection is still doing a gearscore check(aka tabulating in your mind a gear level necessary to satisfy your requirement for some degree of success). More in depth mind you, but still in no way able determine whether your looking at a player with abilities or not.
Robot butler that does dishes...didn't they invent a machine that does that already? :P
Post by
Pwntiff
The nice thing about GS is the /gs inspection pane. It will let you look at the individual items, a summary of their stats, and whether or not they are stacking the wrong stat or short of the right one.
A good raid leader will establish a minimum GS, highball it by a few hundred in the Trade spam, and take anyone above the minimum who passes the /gs.
I don't pretend to know what all the stat caps are. I know casters need 17% hit from gear and talents, melee need 8% hit from gear and talents for soft cap and tanks need 540 defense to be crit immune. I don't know which specs get how much hit to cap, and I'd rather not waste time scanning an unfamiliar talent tree to see if they took it. That is why GS
can be
a useful tool.
Post by
93865
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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