Square Enix made some pretty damn good games. Chrono Trigger and Dragon Quest V are probably the best RPGs of all time. I'm not really talking about series here really. Considering some games in each series kind of blow (the Final Fantasy series has just been going on for so long that they're bound to make some bad ones).I don't think combat style defines the RPG genre, though I'll admit a lot of people do. However the original Fallout and Fallout 2 (arguably better games in terms of immersion and story than the recent Fallout 3) had more traditional turn based combat (Like playing Fallout 3 with only V.A.T.S.).In the end this thread isn't originally about RPGs, which squaresoft is undoubtedly great at making. But MMOs, which they have yet to prove themselves adept at creating to the general internet going population. Just like Bioware wasn't proven themselves good at MMOs yet so I for one, am not going to run out to buy their new MMO when it comes out if it gets lots of negative feedback from the community.
F that, Chrono Cross was awesome. People only dislike it because they can't get over the fact that it's not a literal sequel to Trigger. It had some really trippy connections, and some even more trippy concepts that I really enjoyed. I could say with confidence that I preferred Trigger, but that isn't to say I didn't greatly enjoy Cross.I never got around to finishing FFIX, ashamedly. I did very much enjoy the setting, back to the more high fantasy-ish areas, but when it came out, I think I played it too sporadically to really get attached to it. VII is my favourite, and I'll defend myself in saying it has nothing to do with the hype. I had played the SNES FFs before it, and loved them, but there's just something about VII that makes it one of my favourite games of all time.I see where you're coming from on Oblivion, but I think that the important key point is how you define an RPG. Do you define RPG as featuring pull-in battles? (FF) I used to look at it that way. I look at it in more of a broader sense now, in that I consider a game where your character(s) grow and get stronger, whether to advance an epic storyline (in the case of JRPGs, which put a lot of emphasis on character growth and story) or to survive and flourish in an open, choice-filled world (Oblivion would be put in this category.) Both definitely have their merits, and I definitely don't value one over the other.
I would call a lot of games RPGs that other people might not. Bioshock is a good example. It's a shooter but it's also greatly story driven. It's fairly linear, but you still can make at least one big choice. And silent protagonist you play isn't completely static. I think the reason the game was so successful is because it doesn't simply fall into a single genre. If I just gave you the game and said "Here's an FPS set in an under sea city", you probably wouldn't expect the level of story the game has. You definitely wouldn't expect to be drawn into the characters as much as you are throughout the game.But that's why we have sub-genres anyways. Action-RPG (Kingdom Hearts), MMORPG, Dungeon Crawlers (Diablo), Classic RPGs, Strategy RPGs (Heroes of Might and Magic), and while rare, I'd argue that FPS-RPGs are possible and do exist. Oblivion falls into that category as well.Speaking of Might and Magic. That's a great example. The original PC Might and Magic series is a true blue blooded RPG played in first person with real time combat.
In my opinion, the important part is the character growth portion. Variations on experience and leveling up, a character that grows stronger, and that you equip to withstand new challenges. In some shape or form, this mechanic is present in any RPG, and I would consider any game with this mechanic to be an RPG. It's an important point that distinguishes certain RPGs and Adventure games, like Zelda for example. For all intents and purposes, you can call it an RPG because you take on the role and make choices as that character, but it doesn't have that character growth.
Bought it, feel like I wasted 60 bucks... I've never had this much trouble getting into a MMORPG. .. This coming from someone who took Red Mage to 75 in FFXI... this game is just designed to waste your time with the long walks to quest zones and not labeling ANYTHING... I'll be deactivating and don't ever plan on coming back. If your thinking about questing to level up, forget about it...There are barely any quests and the ones that are in game are so boring that I don't get excited at all about it. (whoohoo Kill 3 Rats).. I got my Pugilist (Monk) to level 10 and started looking for gear upgrades... I got so disenchanted at this point when I found out I'll most likely have to craft them and the AH isn't implemented so I'd have to check all the bazaar guys and hope they are selling it (at a astronomically high price)..
I feel really bad that you had to play that. Poor Fony. I really think some companies have lost touch with gamers and just don't know how to make a good game any more.
To be fair, it's a quick road to bankruptcy and much gnashing of teeth to listen to your customers. "Customers" covers such an enormous range, each with their own ideal as to how things should work, that if you attempt to implement an idea of one group, another previously silent group will spring up and deride them, these Changes That Herald the Doom of Everything, as forum-goes are wont to exaggerate.Every player thinks their way is The Best Way, and never mind that other guy who is just as zealous about his viewpoint - he eats babies, why should you listen to him? I'm not sure why players of video games are so obsessed with this idea that their feedback is so vital to the livelyhood of the game. I guess it's somewhat understandable from the point of view that this is meant as entertainment, and making things More Fun is surely a laudable goal, but you don't see this kind of excess in other entertainment media. A critic of a movie, book, or TV series might disagree with how the story played out, but you don't see entire communities clamoring for a rewrite. Maybe because the feedback to video games (MMOs in particular, or at least games still in active development for patching purposes) is a lot more direct, and because the opportunity is there to have an effect on the development, whereas other media tend to release three stages after completion. Developers have to make decisions that, while not necessarily tough, don't necessarily address the same things that players consider. Of course they are beholden to a business and profit, which no doubt sometimes compromises the enjoyment of a game (to a lesser or greater extent), but beyond that, they need to consider what is actually worth playing. If you amped everything up to 11, it might be fun for a little while, but then players will run out of content, get bored, and leave. It's a fine line between giving them something to work toward (this is true in all games, MMOs just tend to be more treadmill about it to maintain subscriptions - or incentivize store purchases for the micropay models) and keeping gameplay exciting and not repetitive.To that end, you can't fault an MMO developer for making changes that players don't agree with (even those derided for killing their own games). They are looking at a bigger picture, and sometimes the change works, sometimes it doesn't. You need that kind of experimentation to keep the genre (and indeed, the media) from becoming stale.All that said, this is not to excuse SE from whatever they've done with FF14. The copy-pasta'ed terrain alone is a major red flag.Teal deer.
I liked Final Fantasy more when it was Fighter, Black Mage, White Mage, Red Mage, and so on, rather than spiky haired teenagers and bishonen.
I really don't get how people can be this thick...I mean, what possible reason could you have for thinking walking for 20 minutes through copypasta'd terrain is fun. How is pressing one button 15 times in a row to kill one thing fun? Why would you ever think that having a complicated control system and then NOT HAVING A TUTORIAL SYSTEM is a good idea? It's simple logic for god's sake! How could people that made FF10, FF8, and FF7 make this piece of crap? It's mind boggling. Did they fire all of thier good programmers? Or only the smart ones? Hell, I could make more successful MMO with the programmers club at my school, and I'm only 15!
This shows how much people seem to hate the game... apparently some guy sold $26,000,000 (yes, that's twenty-sex million) in stock with Square-Enix because he hated the game so much.