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Post by
355869
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Lorkin
In your example, Camo (let alone stealth) is hardly necessary to get the opening shot on someone not paying attention.
Let me rephrase it. Camo will let you get the opening shot on someone that IS paying attention. If you've never played on a pvp server its hard to explain. I guess just take it for word that it's an amazing pvp ability (as others have said).
Post by
karlusdavius
Just to add, even if they do see you they cannot attack you. They can't do anything about you casting that aimed shot as Camo finishes once the shot has been fired, not when it's been cast.
On another note, FD + Camo allow you to get out of combat and be immune to ranged attacks. It could be vital for heals to land and for proc's to, erm, proc while not being hit.
In essence, you are literally now a hunter/stalker/perdator. You decide what's happening, not them.
Post by
355869
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Garenzo
Let me rephrase it. Camo will let you get the opening shot on someone that IS paying attention. If you've never played on a pvp server its hard to explain.
Okay, they're paying attention... but how is that different from a BG? But again, if I have to transfer to a PvP server to get use out of Camo, it's a disappointing ability.
You're hardly going to notice some almost invisible guy sneaking around while you're fighting in a BG anyways... And it's full invisibility while standing still.
And still, it's an amazing ability for soloing stuff. (being able to sneak right past annoying trash and such)
Post by
Monjaru
I don't think he's biased against the ability per se. But having the
pinnacle
ability for the hunter class be one that he would get zero use from, has got to be a disappointment, no? Oh, I see what you mean. He's not
biased
against the ability, he's just deeply
disappointed
in it and because of his
disappointment
he refuses to see any up-side to it and would rather hunter's not have a level 85 ability
at all
than have the skill. I gotcha.
...
Wait.
Post by
355869
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Monjaru
All they have to do is get inside your minimum range, which will be easy because they can see you when you're moving, and Aimed Shot takes a long time to fire, after you stop moving.
1) LoS
2) Hop in a corner
3) Stop moving and stealth
4) ?
5) Profit!
Don't expect that to work in a PvP scenario, even if the current implementation of Camo survives to Cataclysm.
Care to explain?
/cast Feign Death
/cast Camoflauge
/cast Aspect of the Cheetah/Pack
Run away. See above steps to see what to do next.
Post by
Lorkin
You don't even need FD in that scenario. 5 seconds and you're automatically out of combat. If you can use your mounts while camo'ed then even better!
Post by
355869
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
355869
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Garenzo
Oh, I see what you mean. He's not biased against the ability, he's just deeply disappointed in it and because of his disappointment he refuses to see any up-side to it and would rather hunter's not have a level 85 ability at all than have the skill. I gotcha.
Do you have anything to contribute, besides snark? I don't think he ever said we
shouldn't have
a level 85 ability. I think his complaint is that we practically
won't have
a level 85 ability. Do you understand the difference?
The upside to Camo:
Bonus damage
Big opener in PvP
Bad-ass Predator visual effect
Rogue tears in WoW forums taste delicous
I'm fairly certain he did say that he'd rather not have any 85 abillity at all, but seems the post got deleted or edited... Anyways, just think it's pretty funny that that he keeps trying to play victims and flame everyone who doesn't agree with him... Apparently heroic leap and smoke cloud are awesome PvE skills, and apparently I'm a troll.
Post by
512617
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
karlusdavius
Just to add, even if they do see you they cannot attack you. They can't do anything about you casting that aimed shot
All they have to do is get inside your minimum range, which will be easy because they can see you when you're moving, and Aimed Shot takes a long time to fire, after you stop moving.
On another note, FD + Camo allow you to get out of combat and be immune to ranged attacks. It could be vital for heals to land and for proc's to, erm, proc while not being hit.
Don't expect that to work in a PvP scenario, even if the current implementation of Camo survives to Cataclysm.
Do i
really
have to spell this out?
If they have time to get inside your minimum range, your doing something wrong. You have traps which can be used while camo'ed to stop this from happening. It's not hard to understand this if you have done PvP.
Please also note, that you will most likely (unless your duelling) not be in a 1 v 1 situation. With more people around, it is the perfect survival and tactical ability the hunter has. Going behind the action to target the healers and cause disruption behind the dps can put immense pressure on any group. It is not useless in any sense of the word.
FD works in PvP AFAIK. therefore, that combination works. Loosing your target in the middle of a bg is bad when things are flying around. It has many times worked for me and has many, many times worked for the hunter I'm facing.
Just because the ability isn't PvE orientated, doesn't mean people won't use it. A lot more people are PvP'ing now. Just because it doesn't fit your requirements, doesn't mean it doesn't meet everyones. That said, it actually has some interesting PvE traits. Considering CC will be a big part of it all, having th ability to run through mobs (not testing in dungeons or raids, but we can assume for now) allows us to CC without aggro or risk of aggro.
Post by
355869
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Monjaru
@ Gnorf: What I've contributed is an opposing side to your misguided, prejudiced argument. He did say that he'd rather not have a level 85 ability. And as someone already corrected (which is more than a minor nitpick, if you ask me), just because it doesn't have as much PvE utitlity as you might like is not even
remotely
close to the same thing as not having an ability at all. Do
you
understand the difference?
As for you other comments... first of all, get your mind off of arena for
one second
. Just one. I never
once
claimed that this ability would have any utility in arenas, now did I? No.
And second of all, Blizz has stated that they intend to make Cataclysm PvP more focused around rated BGs, so again, tossing around comments stating, "Oh, that won't work in arenas." mean NOTHING. At all. So seriously, stop bringing it up.
Congratulations, you've just CC'ed yourself.
And you've also CC'ed the other player. Congratulations on bringing up a moot point that only applies in arenas. (by the way, they still don't matter)
Your pet is still in combat, so you're still in combat. You're also dotted up, so even if Camo is off cooldown, it'll break within a couple seconds. Also, the melee class that's beating on you has fought hunters before, is wise to FD, and will probably get a hit on you while you wait on your GCD, putting you back into combat.
Does the GCD start after you use FD or after you get up from it? If it's the former (and I believe it is), then you (whether your pet is or not) are out of combat for as long as you need to be to use Camo. And unless you're in an arena (still not a viable point) against a group of DoT-happy classes that hate hunters, you're not DoTed up. And if that melee class is going after you before the healer, he's a moron. But since we're not talking about arena... if you've got a melee class on you, you're doing it wrong. And even if there is one on you, they better be doing it
really
right to even have a chance of getting at you before you pop Camo and run away.
And if you're a half decent kiting class, you should find a way to make sure that melee class is
not
on you before you pop a CD like that. Juke in the opposite direction right before FD or right after you pop Camo or something. That's the whole point of practicing to get better at using your class's tools to their maximum effectiveness. If you don't/can't do that, you're playing the wrong class, or perhaps the wrong game.
Post by
HoleofArt
I like how you're telling everyone to stop bringing up Arena and spazzing out about it, when I'm the only one who did.
And when I said "so that point is moot" I was referring to my own points made since Camo doesn't mean much in Arena. Calm down.
Post by
Monjaru
I gave several clear reasons as to why arena comments aren't at all valid in this argument when you brought them up and he worded his responses as if arena were what I was referring to, when I was simply referring to PvP in general. I've said it before and I'll say it again: when I have to repeat information that is clearly presented and easily accessable to readers, I tend to get upset. I'm sorry that I get peeved when people ignore the things I say and then say stupid things that could have been avoided if they just learned to read.
People keep stating that for Camo you get to open up with a free Aimed Shot on a target before they hit you.. even though if you were doing it right, that's how it should be every time anyways.*
This is what you said. You then went on to say why in arena this isn't always true, but then said that it isn't useful in arena anyway, and thus a moot point. My confusion is in why you bothered to specify why it wouldn't be true in arena if arena was a moot point anyway. What it looked like to me was that you simply decided to write it to make your post longer because the whole last half of the post was unnecessary information that made no difference whatsoever.
And actually, I'm quite a bit more calm than my posts might indicate.
Post by
HoleofArt
I added it so somebody else couldn't bring it up and say something like, "Well it will also be useful in Arena!" like someone was bound to do. It wasn't unnecessary at all. It ended a tangent of the conversation before it even started.
Post by
Monjaru
I added it so somebody else couldn't bring it up and say something like, "Well it will also be useful in Arena!" like someone was bound to do. It wasn't unnecessary at all. It ended a tangent of the conversation before it even started.
Much like my stating that arena is an invalid point in the argument stopped Gnorf from bringing up points about arena, right?
Alright, I'll concede that it wasn't unnecessary. Just a feeble attempt to stop
further
unnecessary comments.
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