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Time for a BG minimal requirement
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Post by
g2g591
PvE Gear Progression
fresh 80 -> chain heroics -> 232/245 triumph T9 badge gear -> Raids such as ToC to fill in offset -> ICC
PvP Gear Progession
fresh 80 -> chain heroics -> 232 furious -> (NOT voa because no one in their right mind would take anyone in 232 pvp gear and blue offset pieces to a voa) ->
Battlegrounds
-> honor offset pieces -> Arena (and Rated Battlegrounds in Cataclysm)
Wtf is up with captchas this past week or so... mines upside down and backwards....
Post by
lonewarrior
Well, I've seen this thread has grown somewhat since I last posted.
My original post was just to put forth the need for Blizz to remove players who put up half-hearted efforts in BG's. It's not because I want to keep players from enjoying doing BG's..just the opposite..forcing them to be better BG's players will increase their enjoyment.
I can tell you from personal experience of one particular Alterac Valley that started with a very bad zerg attempt that left our faction with the organizer ranting like a lunatic and leaving. We were already over 200+ point behind. I took over the leadership and revamped the strategy. I can tell you it was an incredible effort put forth by the people there. Eventually we got it even at around 40. The final part of that BG I began to embellish the fight with stories of glory, mimicking the 300 movie saga. The final minutes were intense, we had range creating firing lines as we moved forward.
We won by less then 10 points.
The comments afterward went along the line "OMG I just busted a nut" .."My palms are sweating from the fight"..."greatest BG I ever did"...."most fun I've had in ages"...alot of people didn't want to leave the party..they just hung around talking about the battle for a few minutes.
Experience a BG like this and then you will understand why serious BG Players bemoan the scrubs who run around clueless.
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632573
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303152
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649605
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Post by
chowderman
There is already a minimal requirement in place for BG's it is level X0-X9 and the variations there of i.e. Level 80 BG.
If you try to put gear in the equation, where do you expect people to pvp in non-pvp realms to get pvp gear?
Flag themselves and hope they can recover from zerg gank mode groups? Or use their grinded emblems to buy pvp gear and go into a BG and totally suck because they have no pvp experience because they couldn't get in because they didn't have pvp gear.
I would prefer someone who can pvp in pve gear than someone with no experience in good gear, regardless of level, I have a feeling others would too.
Blizzard does a bit of the gear filtering already with the premade and twink filter...
Post by
lonewarrior
Flag themselves and hope they can recover from zerg gank mode groups? Or use their grinded emblems to buy pvp gear and go into a BG and totally suck because they have no pvp experience because they couldn't get in because they didn't have pvp gear.
A.) YES... to use their grind emblems to buy PvP gear. Doing BG's at early levels..learning the fights/strategy and building up HP so you can get the gear.
B.) ummm...experience. Don't raiders use videos to review a boss they have never done. No experience yet..but you know what to expect. Doesn't the same approach apply to BG's.
You spout off about scripted fights being too easy in PVE and then complain about how people are too retarded to gear or play up to your level?
So basically you want GEAR SCORE for PVP.
My level..? I don't set the standards for success. Winning and losing decides that. I'm just asking for the same commitment that you would in ICC.
Gear score for PvP.? I want people showing up in gear that will make it possible to win.
I got to laugh sometimes... I hear about getting experience in BG's..well who stops anyone from getting it. But imagine if some player who never did any dungeons leveling to 80 and then decides he want to do VOA or ICC. A warrior wearing dps blues and green and wants to tank. Seriously ..this guy would be laughed out of the raid. Yet PvPers are suppose to nurture this same approach in BG's?
Look a good player is a good player and a bad one is a bad one, I doesn't matter whether they are green wearing nubs or wrathful wearing hollering morons. I'm ask for the BG's to be fun.
Queing for 20 minutes and then watching people run around with no clue what to do whether on our side or theirs is nooooo more fun..then wiping in ICC because the tank healer keeps dying in fire.
Post by
Pwntiff
Honor at low-level is crap. Especially when you compare it to the cost of end-game PvP gear.
Grinding emblems is a waste if you still need PvE gear, and if you don't need it, why do you want to PvE in order to PvP (one of the largest complaints I've heard)?
Post by
chowderman
......B.) ummm...experience. Don't raiders use videos to review a boss they have never done. No experience yet..but you know what to expect. Doesn't the same approach apply to BG's.....
Yes, raiders do use videos, but after the video comes the wipes, there is no accounting for experience no matter how many videos you watch or strats you read.
Best captcha ever, must be talking about gnomes;
whacke species
Post by
322464
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Post by
166665
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Post by
lonewarrior
Honor at low-level is crap. Especially when you compare it to the cost of end-game PvP gear.
Grinding emblems is a waste if you still need PvE gear, and if you don't need it, why do you want to PvE in order to PvP (one of the largest complaints I've heard)?
PvP gear is PvP gear..where it comes from doesn't matter. This is how Blizz designed it..you get your gear where you can.
You don't wait for drops in raids to get your gear do you..? Seems your willing to accept raid gear from emblems to advance your progression.
As far as honor points being crap..what are you talking about? I spent a fortune in honor points leveling my PvP toon. Like the saying goes you have to spend money to make money. Having PvP gear/sets in the lower level BG's increases your chance to win and accumulate more HP. The end game is where you show off what you learned. If your good the gear will come quickly enough. When I hit 80 I had the 75000 hp limit. I was doing WG while in my upper 70's. I was saving all my triumphs and shards for pvp gear. With that and blacksmithing I was able to get a very decent starter set. But did I try to pwn in Strands...no I manned the cannons. Did I try to carry the flag...no I defended a base. Did I try to fight someone with 10 tenacity...no I fought in a vehicle. I put myself where I could best help, until my gear improved..this is what I'm talking about when I say knowing what to do.
Again...this thread is straying off the mark. I'm asking Blizzard to incorporate more stringent requirements for BG's.(not arenas) In essence to separate PvP from PvE. In the forms of a PvP talent tree and separate leveling. I would even like to see smaller brackets then the 0-9 brackets we have now. 0-4/5-9 I know a lot of Pvpers who sat out the BG's until they were able to level up halfway into the new bracket for obvious reasons. I know I did because I didn't want to hurt our side chance to succeed.
Anyway..If your not going to make a decent attempt to do well in a BG why bother..you wasting your time and mine. So I'll make you a deal..I won't run around In raids pulling adds going AFK and wearing wrong spec green gear and you don't do the same nonsense in a BG. Fair enough.
Post by
Pwntiff
Maybe if you exclusively level in BGs or only BG during Holiday weekends, then yes you can rack up honor.
The single largest complaint I've heard about PvP and PvE is that there is sometimes not enough separation between the two. In TBC, you almost had to get "welfare" PvP epics in order to start raiding, and now you're suggesting you have to Heroic farm in order to start PvP'ing.
If you want to be elitist about "your" BGs, form pre-mades.
Edit: I think you've diverting the thread away from a topic you realize the majority here doesn't like.
World of Warcraft is not a PvP-centric game. You could only recently level through PvP, you still have to hit level 10 to PvP, and Battlegrounds and Honor Points weren't included in the game at launch.
They won't completely separate PvP from PvE by essentially making them two different games.
Post by
322464
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Post by
lonewarrior
Oh yeah;
lonewarrior said:
YES... to use their grind emblems to buy PvP gear.
lonewarrior said:
In essence to separate PvP from PvE. In the forms of a PvP talent tree and separate leveling.
First you say spend PvE emblems on PvP gear, then you say this.
Hypocrit much?
Ugh ..I give up. What the frick are you talking about.
If your going to quote me Jerk off and call me a hypocrite then post everything.
PvP gear is PvP gear..where it comes from doesn't matter. This is how Blizz designed it..you get your gear where you can. the above is my quote and why I say use the emblems. One of my idea has it so people don't have to do this. I want to do away with PvP gear and make it a talent tree instead. So for example, instead of putting points in a talent that will increase your overall stamina..you put it in a spec that gives you resilience...etc.
Maybe if you exclusively level in BGs or only BG during Holiday weekends, then yes you can rack up honor.
The single largest complaint I've heard about PvP and PvE is that there is sometimes not enough separation between the two. In TBC, you almost had to get "welfare" PvP epics in order to start raiding, and now you're suggesting you have to Heroic farm in order to start PvP'ing.
If you want to be elitist about "your" BGs, form pre-mades.
Edit: I think you've diverting the thread away from a topic you realize the majority here doesn't like.
World of Warcraft is not a PvP-centric game. You could only recently level through PvP, you still have to hit level 10 to PvP, and Battlegrounds and Honor Points weren't included in the game at launch.
They won't completely separate PvP from PvE by essentially making them two different games.
I understand...don't do BGs then..concentrate on one. I manage to balance the two. But I have to give up something to do it. I don't have a full set of PvE gear courtesy of LK. I don't do every raid. My progression is slower but satisfying. I'm not in a hurry to get anywhere...I'm here to enjoy.
Not a game designed for pvp...yet they have PvP servers..hmmm. So then BG's are just a down time attraction to keep us busy when we are bored. If that's what you think they are...fine I won't try to convince you otherwise. I believe they can cater to both...this is an evolving game. Lots of things around now weren't there before. Perhaps making PvP more engaging where both sides have to fight each other and a NPC..like maybe taking down a Fel Reaver could improve PvP playing. I'm even willing to go with allowing PvE gear to be bought with Honor Points if it makes for better BG's playing. I just want to be able to enjoy a strategic, dynamic playfield..well played BG's...the same way a PVE players wants a nice smooth run to downing LK. Am I not with in my right to ask and put forth some ideas?
What I don't understand is what people against my idea are defending. The right for someone to play poorly at the expense of other players. O.o
Maybe I should have posted in the PvP section instead. With like minded players. Sorry....to have inconvenienced anyone..you can go back to reading your scripts now.
Post by
166665
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Post by
lonewarrior
On the contrary..no one has put forth any ideas. They just say it's wrong.
If my ideas are wrong..fine..come up with something better...but to say the BG's aren't in need of some way improving the quality of players in them..is just putting your head in the sand. Nuff said.
Again it appears your not reading everything I'm saying...I want to separate the BG's from normal pve leveling. I want PvP to have its own leveling mechanism along with it's own talent tree. Like I said you can have a toon you leveled through quest/dungeons to level 80..but if you never did any BG's and you chose a pvp path for your dual spec choice you would in essence be a level 1 toon. So you could choose either a PvE path or PvP path for your toon and level accordingly.
Why people find this so difficult to master or think it's impossible to implement in some form is beyond me.
I keep reading this ridiculous comment that this isn't a pvp game. People who suck at it make these kinds of comments. Maybe on a sterile PvE server it doesn't matter...but it does on a PvP. But I wouldn't mind if they separated battlegroups into PvP only. Then there would be a greater chance of finding like minded players who actually do like to play well in BG's.
Fail people look at an object they desire but can't afford and resign themselves to never having it....the successful ones ask themselves what changes they have to make to be able to buy it and take up the challenge. This philosophy seems to very obvious in this thread..quite a few fail people who think you can't change anything and a few who think you can make it better.
In the mean time..I look forward to ganking your pve toon should you ever cross my path in the BG's..at least I can get that small satisfaction. Peace out.
Post by
Tarkeel
(...)
I don't go there because I enjoy PVP, far from it.
so you go there... because you have to?
I go because there are certain seasonal or profession achievements I wish to complete, mmkay, so you are like the majority of M&S
(...)
Way to miss the point (with a huge wall of quotes, no less).
Blizzard, in their infinite wisdom, has made it so that if you want your
violet proto-drake
, you have to do a lot of rather fun holiday achievements. unfortunately, most of those contain one PvP achievement of sorts.
Trust us when we say that we do not want to be in your BGs, but if that is what it takes to reach our goal, then BGs it is. Blame Blizzard for "forcing" non-PvPers into BGs instead, and if you just let them complete their achievement, they won't be coming back.
(Or maybe they did get a good taste of PvP, and will gear/skill up and come back)
Post by
567203
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649605
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