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The Garrosh Thread
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Post by
GVHB
You are still the one who caused the destruction of a good part of the Lost Isles (hint:
Bootzooka
)
Post by
FarseerLolotea
What.
Garrosh's whole theme is that he's a @#$%ty tactician and his decisions have to be bailed out by Saurfang in Northrend.And yet, he's called a "brilliant tactician" (or it may have been "brilliant strategist") in the book.
Isn't that an observation made by Cairne? Well, the old bull is getting senile, that's all.I think it may have been in narrative.
o_O he's been described as a brilliant tactician?
what the hell? in all his military career I've yet to see a single brilliant strategy by that boy, his idea of a strategy in borean tundra is an embarrasment for anyone who has even the slightest faintest idea of military warfare, the tactics of his "homies" in the broken front are even worst.
and his bravado in the twilight highlands costed the entire fleet.
Brilliant Tactician my foot.
Thrall was a brillinant strategist, so was Grom, so was Saurfang, but Garrosh cound't win a simple chess match, much less an actuall battle by military prowess.Tell me about it.
Despite his antics in Borean Tundra, his mad tactics skillz are described as "brilliant." Which is supposedly the reason why he was even under consideration
despite
being such a Leeroy.
That
is what I meant by "forced character development" in the other thread. Not to mention "informed traits."
Post by
Skreeran
Eh, he was the leader of the Warsong Offensive, and the Warsong Offensive proved highly effective in Wrath.
I mean, Saurfang helped lead it, but it's pretty clear that he wasn't completely carrying Garrosh.
Post by
FarseerLolotea
Hollywood Tactics
?
Post by
taurenmoo812
I'm actully seeing it now Skree that your being brought by how the story gets retconned out.
Garrosh was a tool in northrend. He lead the offensive did he? What did he do, stamp on toy boats, pick fights with Varian, and set an example for the troops to perform idiotic acts of stabbing the alliance in the back on the broken front?
Saurfang was a tactical leader of the kor'khon guard, and they showed more stability then the warsong did.
Also, to quote from a post I saw on a previous form:
Garrosh is a poser, he really has no connections to the Horde of old or even the new Horde yet here he is acting bigger and badder than any of the Horde members that's been in the Horde longer than he has. He really has no reason to hate the Alliance. He's just a poser. And anyone who likes Garrosh is crazy in the head
.
This ^
In a short space of nothing, Garrosh has smudged the hordes image and made it his, and for being what, the son of Grom? That is the only point he has to his name, and he's done nothing to even prove he deserves to be a military leader, let alone the most powerful member of the horde.
As said about Cairne's observation, and for god sake, Cairne died trying to defend the hordes honor seeing what a bastard Garrosh was. Cairne saw Garrosh act on wanting to kill the standed alliance at sea, and if not for his presence, Garrosh would have killed them.
And yet, people actully have the ordacity to say Cairne was in the wrong?
I'm prepared to sit and wait and see what happens till the end of cata. But should it follow the horde will be Garrosh's, that the writers are gonna make him into doomhammer 2 and have every idiot forget the crap he caused the horde, then I'm gonna leave. I'd get the same feel for it if I was playing lord of the rings online.
Post by
taurenmoo812
i just read the spoilers plot summary for the shattering novel. it was interesting. showed garrosh in a more.....intelligent light. again, his characterization is all over the place. or blizz has just been changing his personallity since he was added to the game.....and now in the shattering he's changed again.
Exactly. And people don't see this. They think 'oh christie golden made garrosh likeable so lets forget what a total tosser he really is'. Its not Garrosh that concerns me anymore. Its the morons that can't see what a retconed, poorly directed character Garrosh really is.
Post by
Skreeran
I'm actully seeing it now Skree that your being brought by how the story gets retconned out.
Garrosh was a tool in northrend. He lead the offensive did he? What did he do, stamp on toy boats, pick fights with Varian, and set an example for the troops to perform idiotic acts of stabbing the alliance in the back on the broken front?
Saurfang was a tactical leader of the kor'khon guard, and they showed more stability then the warsong did.Well, I like the retconned version more.
As for Garrosh, he had a lot of influence in the Warsong Offensive and Kor'kron. Remember that Agmar, Krenna, Korm, and so on are all friends of Garrosh. Their victory in their respective zones means victory for Garrosh.
Read
this
.
But victory... Victory can mean many things. As you have probably noticed, the Kor'kron are there in full force. The Warchief has sent his elite guard to help secure victory in Northrend. They, along with you and other heroes, are pushing the Lich King and his forces towards an inevitable conclusion. With each challenge you overcome, we are one step closer to ridding our world of Arthas and the Scourge.
And therein lays the dilemma. For you see, our forces in Northrend work under the auspices of young Hellscream. Each victory bolsters the morale of the Horde forces here, which carries through to the rest of Azeroth.
It is unfortunate, then, that Hellscream employs such savage tactics. As victory approaches, Hellscream gains further justification for his methods, which in turn brings us closer to a place we have not been in many years: a dark place.Again, we see here that Garrosh
is
leading the Horde to victory.
Now, I know that me bringing up this letter will only make you point out how Garrosh uses "savage tactics" and is leading the Horde to "a dark place," but remember that while Garrosh is a beloved leader and effective conquerer, he's not unteachable. Slowly but surely he is learning the ways of the New Horde. It's visible in The Shattering and its visible in Cataclysm. I have hope for him.
As said about Cairne's observation, and for god sake, Cairne died trying to defend the hordes honor seeing what a bastard Garrosh was. Cairne saw Garrosh act on wanting to kill the standed alliance at sea, and if not for his presence, Garrosh would have killed them.
And yet, people actully have the ordacity to say Cairne was in the wrong?Cairne died trying to punish Garrosh for an act that he had nothing to do with. I do not blame Cairne for believing that Garrosh ordered it (that's exactly what the Twilight's Hammer wanted), but Garrosh was not in the wrong.
And I've never said Cairne was in the wrong. But neither was Garrosh.
Exactly. And people don't see this. They think 'oh christie golden made garrosh likeable so lets forget what a total tosser he really is'. Its not Garrosh that concerns me anymore. Its the morons that can't see what a retconed, poorly directed character Garrosh really is.He may have had a shaky start, but he's got some very clear direction now, and he's looking like he may turn out okay.
Varian too had a terrible, terrible start for his current run, and retcons and mary-sueness were rampant in his comics, but he's turned out to be a decent character, and I kind of like him too.
Post by
taurenmoo812
To quote what you just posted here:
It is unfortunate, then, that Hellscream employs such savage tactics. As victory approaches, Hellscream gains further justification for his methods, which in turn brings us closer to a place we have not been in many years: a dark place
People are ignoring the fact of what is happening, only looking at whats happening now instead of what would happen as a result of this. That in itself is, frankly, shallow.
Post by
Skreeran
To quote what I just posted there:
Now, I know that me bringing up this letter will only make you point out how Garrosh uses "savage tactics" and is leading the Horde to "a dark place," but remember that while Garrosh is a beloved leader and effective conquerer, he's not unteachable. Slowly but surely he is learning the ways of the New Horde. It's visible in The Shattering and its visible in Cataclysm. I have hope for him.
Post by
taurenmoo812
The horde doesn't mean what it did to me a year ago or before that. The very reason I've been a heated and devoted fan of the horde, and more then anything, the orcs, was because there were a redeemed race of noble savages, and second, they were lead by a remarkable leader who was different from any other, and who because of him, made the horde was it was, and did as the doomhammer said, lead them to there salvation.
All of a sudden, none of that matters now, and all that crap about redemption and overcoming there past, just falls flat on its face, when the story goes that they would follow someone without protest who leads them to 'dark times' again.
What I see when they direct garrosh in yet another direction, isn't some amazing develop character who overcomes so much. I see a brat, living up to his daddys rep, given a mantle he didn't earn, and just to cause tension in the story, and to let the orcs follow there dark tendancys once again.
and the question is, if people want to see him develop into something more then this worthless tool of a character, why then do they like his violent and idiotic tendancys more then anything else?
Post by
Skreeran
So... When he's an out of control maniac, you hate him. When he starts to learn restraint, you still hate him and call it a retcon and bad character development. A year from now, when everything is okay and the Horde
isn't
baby-murdering evil savages, you'll still be unhappy. If it's not Thrall, there's just no pleasing you, is there?
Post by
taurenmoo812
So... When he's an out of control maniac, you hate him. When he starts to learn restraint, you still hate him and call it a retcon and bad character development. A year from now, when everything is okay and the Horde
isn't
baby-murdering evil savages, you'll still be unhappy. If it's not Thrall, there's just no pleasing you, is there?
I didn't fall for this whole 'Varian is a better character' crap, and I won't fall for it with Garrosh either. And I was right to think that, seeing just what Varian is commited to in cata.
And if you honestly can say now, that you think the horde will regain the noble/savage quality like it once had, instead of like the warnings said, becoming a darker horde again, and actully show me anything to prove it, I'm not going to change what I feel to this.
Garrosh won't kill the horde, he'll just change it into something else, and just like my case I said about the x-men, I don't buy it.
Post by
Skreeran
I didn't fall for this whole 'Varian is a better character' crap, and I won't fall for it with Garrosh either. And I was right to think that, seeing just what Varian is commited to in cata.Varian's progressed a lot, and not just with the ICC incident, but I don't find it surprising that you don't like it. It seems that you prefer static characters.
And if you honestly can say now, that you think the horde will regain the noble/savage quality like it once had, instead of like the warnings said, becoming a darker horde again, and
actully show me anything to prove it, I'm not going to change what I feel to this.
I had a feeling.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
Metzen: That would be telling. Is he daddy's son, or can he straighten out? (Interesting that it was phrased that way). A theme that Blizzard is really trying to push, actually.
They know and appreciate that Garrosh is a "contentious" character.
He's part of a far larger storyline including Thrall (
"And dammit, I like talking about guys like Thrall. He's the most important person on Azeroth."
), who is a pivotal character. Thrall had a great bit in Nagrand but Metzen doesn't think they've actually used him to his potential. The whole Garrosh deal actually has a lot to do with Thrall.
References Christie Golden's "The Shattering." Sees Thrall as a Clark Kent-type character, good guy who may not really know his true strength. "He's never taken the time to just grow," was pushed into leadership very young. Metzen sees Garrosh used as a counterpoint to Thrall, the former as a hothead against someone who thinks. Ultimately, Garrosh "is the foil to Thrall."
Don't get fixated on Garrosh; the story's not ultimately about him.
Thinks this is going to be some of the best storytelling that WoW has ever done.
"If you love the Horde today, how much more will you love it when you need to fight for it?"
Post by
GVHB
So, Garrosh is just a part of Thrall's story, instead of having an story about himself? And that bit about fighting for the Horde makes me think Blizzard will make Thrall kill Garrosh.
Post by
Skreeran
So, Garrosh is just a part of Thrall's story, instead of having an story about himself? And that bit about fighting for the Horde makes me think Blizzard will make Thrall kill Garrosh.I don't think so. Garrosh has a very different mindset and way of doing things than Thrall, but he's past his phase as a mad brute.
Post by
Rankkor
Metzen: That would be telling. Is he daddy's son, or can he straighten out? (Interesting that it was phrased that way). A theme that Blizzard is really trying to push, actually.
They know and appreciate that Garrosh is a "contentious" character.
He's part of a far larger storyline including Thrall (
"And dammit, I like talking about guys like Thrall. He's the most important person on Azeroth."
), who is a pivotal character. Thrall had a great bit in Nagrand but Metzen doesn't think they've actually used him to his potential. The whole Garrosh deal actually has a lot to do with Thrall.
References Christie Golden's "The Shattering." Sees Thrall as a Clark Kent-type character, good guy who may not really know his true strength. "He's never taken the time to just grow," was pushed into leadership very young. Metzen sees Garrosh used as a counterpoint to Thrall, the former as a hothead against someone who thinks. Ultimately, Garrosh "is the foil to Thrall."
Don't get fixated on Garrosh; the story's not ultimately about him.
Thinks this is going to be some of the best storytelling that WoW has ever done.
"If you love the Horde today, how much more will you love it when you need to fight for it?"
well well well, staight from Metzen's mouth.
There you go tauren, Directly from the mouth of the creator of Thrall (and whom also does his voice)
And dammit, I like talking about guys like Thrall. He's the most important person on Azeroth
Don't get fixated on Garrosh; the story's not ultimately about him
so there it is, straight from the horse's mouth (well not litterally) Thrall aint gonna get killed, he aint gonna step down, he aint gonna be recicled into a disposable character.
If this doesn't convince you, then nothing will, not even if Thrall himself leaps from your PC screen and tells you directly. (and this is the closest we all have of that ever happening)
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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