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PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
31 point talent trees
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Post by
pezz
Wowhead doesn't have them up, but here's the mmo-champion link:
Paladin trees
As far as holy goes, Inspired Judgments and Purifying power are interesting. If SoW doesn't get broken and still procs off judgments and everything, we'll easily end up being the most mana efficient cleansing class. I'm currently thinking something like
this
, because I really can't find any other very useful way to sub-spec. I guess you could go prot and pick up seals of the pure and improved hammer to get Guardian's Favor, but I think I'd rather have the run speed.
DI got a nerf. But, at least you could use it for DPS now? It looks like there's going to be a lot more judging involved.
I'm thinking
something like this
for Ret. I
want
Sanctity of Battle, but unless the distribution of our damage changes hugely it seems worse than anything I could drop for it.
I don't know what Divine Retribution is, but I bet it's pretty sweet.
It's harder to tell with prot. A lot of the spec in Wrath is based on rotation or mana inflow/outflow calculations, and it looks like that's all changing too much to be definitive. I'm wondering if Divinity is going to be more useful in a game with less overhealing, if the rotation will still require 9 seconds (or faster) judgments, whether 2/2 SA will be needed now... too much to say, really.
The definite changes to prot rotations are: Exo is in, CS is in. Cons is mostly out, unless you need to refresh it early because you moved. If anything that probably means mana will be even less of a problem. HS is definitely out. DP will have to be cast more often, and Binding Shield can be thrown in sometimes, but they're on pretty long cooldowns to try to build a rotation around them.
Edit: I'll add in the level 10 stuff for picking a tree:
Paladin - Holy
Invokes the power of the Light to protect and to heal.
Holy Shock
Meditation
Healing Bonus
Paladin - Protection
Uses Holy magic to shield himself / herself and defend allies from attackers.
Avenger's Shield
Touched by the Light
Vengeance
Paladin - Retribution
A righteous crusader who judges and punishes opponents with weapons and Holy magic.
Two-Handed Weapon Specialization
Divine Storm
Sheath of Light
Divine Purpose
And, it's not related to paladins, but... level 10 Felguard. That is all. ./rerolls.
Post by
Squishalot
HS is out of the Prot rotation too. But CS looks like it's becoming a spammable ability (finally!), so we'll be moving more to a Warrior-style spam-and-wait-for-procs 'rotation'.
Ret - change to Swift Retribution is huge as far as raid buffs go. 20% melee/ranged haste? Hell yeah. And I know they're downgrading the power of Holy Light, but given that Art of War allows Holy Light instant-casts, that gives us an idea of precisely how they're balancing our heals generally. And isn't Crusade just a little bit.... OP?
Holy - Divine Light is our new big spell. Holy just doesn't cut it anymore!
Ok, here's a prot tree:
http://www.wowtal.com/#k=-SvZAFAes.9mn.paladin
Crusader Strike: +100% damage, spammable, +15% damage from Crusade, +15% damage to all targets, +10% damage from Sacred Oath, that's suggesting that as far as a general attack is concerned, Crusader Strike will do pittance damage normally.
Post by
MasterOutlaw
I was going to crawl over here and point out the new trees, but you beat me to it. At any rate, I'm liking the new and improved talents, especially in the Ret tree.
Post by
pezz
I'm looking
here
for spells.
Oh yes, Holy Shield is no longer a clicky.
Okay, slightly less lazy approach than 'beats the !@#$ out of me' to the new prot:
We have Exo, CS, ShoR, HotR, Cons, and Judgment. (And Binding shield and DP, I suppose)
Exo I'm not sure about. MMO champ's tooltip still says 15 seconds, but the description says 10 seconds. However, the link to the spell the 15 second tooltip goes to is #879, which is a pretty Vanilla-WoW number. I think it's more likely they're just using the live server tooltip, and the CD is going to be 10 seconds.
CS seems to be talented down to completely spammable, which leads me to believe that it's probably not great, or at least not intended to be that great.
ShoR seems unchanged.
HotR doesn't show a cooldown at the moment, but I assume it's unchanged. Once you had Cons running I can't imagine why you'd want to use anything else for AoE tanking if this was spammable, and I assume Blizzard wants to move away from systems like "step 1) Swipe. step 2) Repeat step one." for AoE tanking.
Cons seems to have been upgraded to a base duration of 15 seconds, and is going to go all the way up to 45 seconds if talented. Still seems to have a cooldown of eight seconds, which is good for movement, but irrelevant to theorycrafting a rotation.
Judgment also doesn't show a CD right now, but since there's still a ret talent reducing said CD (and because everyone would take all ret paladins for DPS if it was spammable), it's safe to assume it's still 8-10 seconds, depending on your spec.
You could
kind
of do a 969. The sixes are still there. Exo would be 10 seconds so there'd be a delay, but only one second over the full course of the rotation. You'd replace HS with CS, or AS if it was up, or Cons if it needed refreshing. Without thinking too hard, that's the best I can come up with. You'd fit Divine Plea in... probably over Exo half of the time? 'Wherever' is probably a more accurate description of where DP would go. Ditto Binding Shield. At a minute CD there probably wouldn't be a place for it in the 'rotation,' but it looks fun to throw in occasionally.
There also might just be a FCFS system, and as always I need to remind myself of
point ten
.
Post by
Squishalot
Point 10 is a new one... when did that come up? But yes, definitely true.
Crusader Strike is still aiming at 100% weapon damage as base. Granted, it's a one-handed weapon, but that's still pretty significant damage. Compare it to Devastate at the moment, it's a helluva lot better as far as spammable abilities go.
Post by
dingbot1
I'm not liking the holy tree, everything at the bottom buffs judgement or spell crit. Divine Illumination looks fairly week. You could go down to the third tier of prot or ret if you want. Could be some wacky specs there.
http://www.wowtal.com/#k=wu51nz.9mn.paladin
Ret you can get all the damage boosting stuff but have to choose between Seals of the Pure or Judgements of the Pure.
Optimally, you'll also have to lose two of the three raid buffs (Heart of the Crusader, Swift Retribution, and Sanctified Retribution ).
http://www.wowtal.com/#k=gBVjfVId.9mn.paladin
Gonna need to see about mana for prot, because the divine plea refreshing talent is going away, being replaced by a cooldown reduction - which would take a lot of globals. I put two points in Spiritual Attunement instead. For threat you'll go into ret for Crusade and Eye for an Eye.
Instant Exorcism doesn't really seem necessary at this point, having Avenger's Shield (which is a mastery) and Hand of Reckoning. It could easily change with the rotation, though. Missing the Binding Shield cast reduction talent we were promised.
http://www.wowtal.com/#k=-ptS7jfh.9mn.paladin
Just my thoughts.
Post by
pezz
We got a 'which talent related to a spell that blues have already said isn't going to exist should I take in Cata?' question or two, and I decided I was going to need a new point.
And wow. Yeah. I missed the buffs to CS. From 75% weapon damage to 100% weapon damage, with a talent that doubles the damage. So a spammable 200% weapon damage every 1.5 seconds, with an extra seal proc every 1.5 seconds. It's just a shame that prot can't get the psuedo-SoComm talent now. That would be some pretty amusing AoE threat.
Edit for simultaneous posting: The thing about new Divine Illumination is that it works well with the active mastery in Holy. At the moment, DP + the two piece tier ten DI effect gives you 67.5% healing (since an extra 35% of 50% is only 17.5%). With a ton of mastery and critical heals that end up being 200% instead of 150%, DP + a critical heal = a full strength, non-crit heal. That is pretty spiffy. You could mostly negate the DP healing reduction if you just crit all the time. And on top of that you'd get the cost reduction from Illumination. It's a bit of a nerf, but it also seems a
lot
more flexible in use.
The thing about judgment buffs is threefold. First, healers are supposed to be doing a little bit of DPS now. I'm not really sure why, but they all are. Druids get free Wraths, Shamans are given mana and throughput related reasons to cast shocks and Lightning Bolts, and Priests... do whatever it is they do. I hate playing that class. Judgment is the paladin way of doing that. Two, Seal of Wisdom looks unchanged. A talent that procs free judgments is a big mana saver with that seal. Three, judgments heal your beacon now. It's a little bit more passive healing to your tank at a low, or possibly negative, mana cost.
Post by
Squishalot
http://www.wowtal.com/#k=-SvZAFAes.9mn.paladin
- here you go. CS bonus damage with Seal of Cleave / Righteousness. You do lose HotR though, unfortunately, but it's still pretty nice, for straight-up spammable abilities.
Post by
pezz
They're going to force you to go 31 points into a tree before you can spend points outside of it, though.
I'm also fairly sure you got your links mixed up.
Post by
331845
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
They're going to force you to go 31 points into a tree before you can spend points outside of it, though.
I'm also fairly sure you got your links mixed up.
I must have missed that bit...
And yes, the link did something stupid. And yes, there are 36 points of juicy Prot talents. At least there's still enough for even jucier Crusade.
Post by
Phototropic
Well, I've come up with a lil prot spec.. obviously very similar to others:
http://www.wowtal.com/#k=-ptS-Q66.9mn.paladin
Just wondering about Eye for an Eye, it says it gives a 5%/10% chance to strike the attacker with your judgement. First off, which one, or will it be a 4th generic judgement? Secondly, I'm hoping it's not like Warrior's
Overpower
and DK's
Rune Strike
, whereby you you have to activate it upon the 5%/10% proc.
The above would be the deciding factor for where the remaining two points go in the aforementioned spec; 2/2 Eye for an Eye or 2/2 Improved Excorsism...
And yes, before someone says, I know it's when taking damage not from a miss/dodge/parry.
EDIT:
A few extra things that I've noticed...
Conc going to (up to) 30 seconds duration could be well suited to a /dbm timer macro a la SS is now (for me at least).
No talent for increasing threat from holy damage?
Ignore, I'm thick and tired ¬_¬
Yey for passive sanctuary, no more buggering around with greater blessings when a ret pala's in the group and passive holy shield :D Yey!
As previously mentioned, no infite Divine Plea :( And 3 points to bring it 'back in line', if the live CD remains... Worthwhile, where points can be spent in Ret for Crusade/Improved Judgement?
Divine Sacrifice + Ardent Defender = nice...ish? 15% health gap between where DS stops (20% health remaining) and where you can use AD (35% remaining)...
Post by
pezz
Hmm, I sort of just assumed that Sacred Oath was Stoicism since the picture hasn't changed, but I moused over it and saw 30% more powerful Sacred Shields.
This
might work as a sub-prot holy build.
I can't imagine Eye for an Eye is going to do much of anything for threat. Assume you dodge or parry 20% of the time (I think I remember saying Blizzard is going to reduce how often that happens). So, for any given boss swing, your odds of actually proccing that are .8 x .1, or .08, or 8%. And if my fairly conservative estimate for a fully avoiding swing is too low, that number only looks worse.
Given a 2 second boss swing speed, JotJ will increase that to a 2.4 second cast speed (I think). So an 8% chance every 2.4 seconds at a middling level attack. I'd rather just be able to use Exorcism, and buff it as well. Although without exact numbers for the spells I could be terribly wrong.
Post by
Phototropic
Yeah, true re. the swing timers...
10% for 2 points is already fairly expensive and it would be nice ot be able to chuck an insta-exor at demon/undead/dragonkin -- did I read correctly, somewhere, that dragonkin are being added to the crit factor for exor?
Edit: typings horrible today -_-
Post by
Rouen
The thing about judgment buffs is threefold. First, healers are supposed to be doing a little bit of DPS now. I'm not really sure why, but they all are.
Being too lazy to find the blue post referencing this, but Ghostcrawler said he wants healers to be able to level more easily. The idea is when healers can spare the mana and globals to do some DPS that it should benefit them somewhat more, such as the talent in the priest Discipline Tree that heals nearby allies by 45% of the total damage done by Smite (if fully talented). He also said something along the lines of doing DPS as a healer wouldn't be feasible in hard modes for obvious reasons. ALSO (lots of em here), GC said the extra damage a healer can do would still pale in comparison to a DPS who steps up their game.
Post by
Fuin
Since I'm tank I was looking at the prot tree, and I must say, it has pretty cool bonuses, however something that bother me is that there is no talent for divine plea to refresh on hit, does it mean we w'll have to cast it while tanking, there's the talent that deacreses CD by 1 minute, so we can have it up 100% anyway, but it's kinda time waste to recast spell that does not do any threat (especially if keeping threat will become a problem, keeping up Dp may be problematic)
Post by
335723
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
232756
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pezz
The news post on the front page of the site recommends ctrl + f5, whatever that does.
Post by
Raleandris
Ardent Defender can be leap-frogged again. How exciting.
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