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Official Warlock Cataclysm Thread
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Post by
144586
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Post by
289853
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Post by
asakawa
what i've seen happening is if you cast a soul fire and the EI proc occurs mid cast it is consumed by the cast completing. if that's what you mean then, yes, i can confirm that.
Post by
289853
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Post by
Fingulfin
That exact same thing would happen to Backlash procs all throughout BC... they fixed it during a random Wrath patch though.
Post by
lucius
I doubt its possible, but would a soulburn effect for SB improve its ability to be a filler. I've no idea what this effect could potentially be, but it would save DL from a nerf (only possible soulburn effect that comes to mind is maybe immediately applying 3 stacks of embrace upon impact).
No, soulburn has a 45 second cooldown. The easiest fixes are to change the mastery so that it affects all shadow damage, or nerf the damage/coefficient on drain life, which is semi-inconsequential considering each tick heals 2% of our life.
Otherwise, they have to add a new mechanic via talent, something like Fulmination or Burning Embers/Ignite. For instance, each cast of shadowbolt builds up a Soul Orb buff (on the warlock or the target). At X charges you instantly deal Y damage, consuming the stack. Or casting UA consumes the stack, causing UA to instantly dealing X ticks of damage.
Post by
asakawa
DL's been nerfed already. no need to speculate any more.
also people are worrying far too much about the devaluation of mastery as a stat for affliction. it was FAR surpassing haste and now is likely to be slightly under. demo's mastery is still lagging very far behind, that's the one we ought to be worried about right now.
Post by
USMCDiablo
what i've seen happening is if you cast a soul fire and the EI proc occurs mid cast it is consumed by the cast completing. if that's what you mean then, yes, i can confirm that.
The same thing happens on live. If you cast Incinerate without a molten core proc and it procs midcast you'll use the third charge without the haste bonus ^_^
Post by
asakawa
why would you be casting incinerate without an MC proc? ^_^
there are many, many examples throughout the game of this happening. blizzs tend to fic them if they get particularly annoying. given EI's all new super low proc chance i can't see it being a big priority for blizz.
Post by
Modibybob
Regarding the other thread that got blasted for being unnecessary, the only question I have for DL > shadowbolt for the filler would be if nightfall procced while draining life, would it be better for one to finish the drain life, then cast the SB, or simply fire it off upon proc?
Post by
Fingulfin
Drain Life is not your filler, Shadow bolt is.
This is why
we
keep it to one thread
.
Post by
asakawa
at the current coefficient for DL we see drain still out damage SB at 13.27% mastery. (
source
- all credit for this spreadsheet to
keldion
at EJ)
there's still the spell queue system that plays a big part when you're inspecting the numbers so closely so i would suggest a much higher mastery number for a difference to actually show but i think that DL/SB is a problem that's been postponed rather than solved.
we'll see.
Post by
275441
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Post by
DraconisAerius
wow.com posted some numbers on spell power coefficents and tested damage output for spells the other day, not entirely sure on how accurate it is but makes for interesting reading. he seems to show searing pain doing more damage and chaos bolt. odd.
(source)
Post by
asakawa
that's likely to be a factor but my guess is not such a big one.
DL has been nerfed but it's currently not enough to take it off the table since even without mastery it seems that DL will eventually catch up just with enough spellpower. factor in mastery and, depending on how much reforging you do, it might still be entirely viable even for level 80 players in 4.0.1.
the inability to queue is a big hit to DL's viability though. with things being that close DL will take a fairly major skill factor to actually bring it out ahead of SB even if the maths tells you it should be better for you character.
edit:
SP is ridiculous at the minute and CB is decidedly underpowered.
that said, he's doing DPET comparisons and SP is a short cast with a long cast's scaling. also you're looking at the number with 40% extra crit for half the fight which skews things massively. SP simply can't be used like that.
there's been some discussion on the issues surrounding SP in another thread but looking at it it was mostly just a post or two so i'll just quote it here:
it has almost exactly the same coefficient as incinerate and only slightly lower base damage.
this would already make it the spell to cast for destro (and possibly demo too) simply by doing the same damage for a much shorter cast but the problem is exacerbated by improved searing pain which would essentially give destro an execute phase from 50%.
this has become a spell that destro wants to cast ALL the time and will mean that our output is capped not by our spellpower, mana, gear, skill but by the tank's ability to produce threat, our pallies' ability to use HoSalv and our ability to soulshatter correctly.
that's not the game i want to play.
edit:
i did a quick PTR test to demonstrate SP > incin
a single 2 minutes with each spell in full rotation on a max health test dummy (read: not a proper test just a demonstration)
incinerate - average hit 5843 - average crit 12280 - crit rate 51.6%
overall DPS with this spell rotation 9824
searing pain - average hit 5699 - average crit 11587 - crit rate 68.3%
overall DPS 11254
same damage. faster cast.
...higher crit rate. i can't work this out tbh. i did have the iSP talent but only attacked target at max health. maybe i'm missing a modfier to SP crit rate somewhere.
Post by
TheVorago
so the SB =?= DL controversy remains? I like it.
but alright, isnt it possible that blizz simply is trying to balance the two, making both viable and hence making personal preference the determining factor? maybe the affliction filler rulership will be divided, so that the combat situation of the moment determines what to use.
Post by
asakawa
well, i know they're not trying to do that because ghostcrawler has stated several times in the past and again recently that their intention is for affliction to use SBs. blizz is only ever happy to allow emergent gameplay up to a point and much less in recent times than in the past. if their intention is for aff to use a destro spell as filler then you can probably expect them to make sure that happens one way or another.
the trouble is that affliction's mastery effect is perfect for affliction, it could never really have been anything else, but wherever you place the balance between DL and SB we're going to have a stat that only scales with one of the two spells meaning at some gear point, however far off, DL will always win eventually. blizz made a short term fix which should keep most people from using DL in 4.0.1 but this will come up again. the only real fix i can see is making drains not benefit from mastery.
my interpretation of all this is that blizz wants SB to be the ideal filler spell but DL to be close enough to it that on forums like this we say things like "use SB as your filler spell but if your health ever dips just switch to DL for a few casts" and NOT "DL is such a crazy DPS loss, just keep spamming SB and tell your healers to stop sucking".
if this is indeed what they want then they're not quite there yet. but if they get there then DL might be close enough to SB to allow the (surprisingly large number of) people who like DL on a lore basis to use the spell without it being a ridiculous DPS loss.
(though wilfully choosing a DPS loss like that is a pretty weird idea to me)
Post by
TheVorago
yeah. well then most everything points to ghostcrawler being wrong, doesnt it? cause like you say yourself, mastery will tilt the numbers in favor of DL (im guessing even quite quickly so?) and the other alternative of removing drains from the mastery effect doesnt seem likely since it will render both drains pretty useless in the long run.
Post by
asakawa
hehe, i think you're misunderstanding the "lead systems designer"<->"game mechanic" relationship if you think GC
can
be "wrong" about things like this ^_^
Post by
TheVorago
lol, i see your point but i dont understand how he sees his ^^
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