This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
Official Warlock Cataclysm Thread
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
281768
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
356172
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Fingulfin
wat? Refreshing the duration is exactly the same as reapplying it (which in turn keeps it from falling off).
Post by
356172
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
i think the point is that once i you put it up nobody's going to dispel it and you can maintain it with 100% uptime with this instant cast, uninterruptable spell.
we'll be clipping all DoTs in cataclysm but this one you can clip with an instant to refresh it.
Post by
356172
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
406153
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
356172
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Zhenbuyaoshi
So much talk about Demo and some about Destro, I thought i'd throw an Aff build out there.
Here
Now then, I agree with Asakawa in that BoH will be a very nice talent. One thing i'm not sure of and please correct me if i'm wrong, but no one mentioned BoH being put on a boss, that you are DPS'ing. Wouldn't that be a free 15% damage boost? After all, it says "all damange done by the warlock is also dealt to baned target" Seems like it to me...but its late so I could be missing something.
Though truthfully, I don't think our talents have been finished yet...
It also seems like it to me, everyone seems to be assuming that this Bane is going to function like Beacon of Light; however, Beacon is a 100% return, whereas this is only a 15% return. The text of the Bane does read as you've said, "Banes the target for 2 min, causing 15% of
all
damage done by the Warlock to also be dealt to the baned target. Only one Bane per Warlock can be active on any one target." 115% damage to one target--yes, while only doing single target damage to that target--does not seem like a major stretch at all for a Curse/Bane. Hell, Curse of Elements makes it 113%, so why not?
Beacon of Light would end up granting 200% healing every other moment, and so I can see why they made it so that it did not affect the target of Beacon. This is significantly different, as it is significantly less return to the target of the spell. Even if there were another Warlock around and they were to cast a secondary damage increasing debuff like Curse/Bane of Elements on the same target, you'd still only be getting up into about 130% of the damage you'd normally be doing to the target you'd have BoHed, and would be dpsing.
So, powerful, yes, but out of this world powerful, no. If Bane of Havoc doesn't affect the target upon which it is cast, then it seems like it would have a fairly limited use, except for maybe making some really funny moments for some really unhappy players in PvP :) Bosses with hefty amounts of adds? Or, do I get to change my present Bane to BoH immediately upon an add spawning so that I continue to dps the boss while dpsing the add, then reapply the original Bane continue to dps, rinse and repeat, should BoH prove to actually not affect it's primary target?
It would be great if someone that gets to beta test, when BoH is implemented, would come on over and tell us how BoH actually does function...
Post by
asakawa
Hell, Curse of Elements makes it 113%, so why not?
because you could have both curse and bane at the same time in cataclysm.
i don't think anyone is really making the mistake of thinking BoH is 100%. the fact that it is only 15% is commented on very early in this thread. 15% is CONSIDERABLY more than BoDoom and BoAgony and they are the spells you need to compare it to. while the mechanic is similar to beacon i really think it is folly to linger too much on comparisons to that spell.
healing != damage
they are worlds apart.
i base this on zero authority but i'd be overwhelmingly surprised if BoH took damage from it's own target.
there are plenty of other reasons but if it did then why would agony and doom still exist?
Post by
Zhenbuyaoshi
Hell, Curse of Elements makes it 113%, so why not?
because you could have both curse and bane at the same time in cataclysm.
i don't think anyone is really making the mistake of thinking BoH is 100%. the fact that it is only 15% is commented on very early in this thread. 15% is CONSIDERABLY more than BoDoom and BoAgony and they are the spells you need to compare it to. while the mechanic is similar to beacon i really think it is folly to linger too much on comparisons to that spell.
healing != damage
they are worlds apart.
i base this on zero authority but i'd be overwhelmingly surprised if BoH took damage from it's own target.
there are plenty of other reasons but if it did then why would agony and doom still exist?
Well, I'm counting on being able to have both Banes being able to be cast on the same target; however, not by the same Warlock. Correct me if I'm wrong, but are not all Curses being turned into "Banes" in Cataclysm. Are they are calling them "magic," instead of "curse," and therefore easier to dispel, which bothers me? And, the only one Bane per Warlock rule would still apply. Therefore, it would take two Warlocks working together to get both Bane of Havoc and Bane of Elements on the same target, and like I said, that would only get it up to about 130% damage dealing, and only for the Warlock that put up the BoH, it would still only be 113% damage dealing for the Warlock that put up BoE.
As for Bane of Agony and Bane of Doom, well, not everyone is going to spend the talent points to get Bane of Havoc. So, just having those options, that are completely viable ones, as just learned spells, no talents needed, makes them worth something. Are they as good, okay, no, but are they still good, yes. But, you know what, that's just my opinion... *shrug*
Post by
LookOut
No, there will be both curses and banes.
Curse of Elements will still be Curse of Elements
Curse of Agony and Doom will be changed to Banes.
I haven't read anything about Curse of Weakness or Curse of Tongues, so I guess they'll remain curses.
This gives the extra benefit of using Curse of Elements without gimping your dps ...
Post by
USMCDiablo
How much damage would you actually have to do to the adds to overtake Agony or Doom though? Obviously we can't get a completely solid answer to this, but I'm starting to think Havoc is being considerably overrated. Depending on how the Demo tree is reworked, there might be some nice talents to pick up instead of going for this small dps increase in add fights. On a fight like Lady Deathwhisper where you're AoEing down a pile of adds this could be extremely effective, but then it's also useless on a good portion of fights. Hopefully we can get a tri-spec once cata hits, but I suppose I can always respec whenever I want to PvP so I can raid with multiple specs ^_^
Post by
asakawa
as lookout says, curses are non-damaging debuffs. banes do damage.
this is being done so the raid's debuffer doesn't have to pay in DPS.
As for Bane of Agony and Bane of Doom, well, not everyone is going to spend the talent points to get Bane of Havoc.
this is the thing. every spec has access to it so every spec would take it if it worked this way. this would lead to similar complaints we see currently about ruin being mandatory for all specs.
think about the DPET of this spell compared to the already incredibly high DPET of doom. here's a spell that would use one cooldown and do 15% of your total damage over 2minutes O.o
i think this spell will be interesting enough when used on add fights. it will be great if we get more options in other trees that we need to do a lot of theorycraft on to decide which option to take.
this is why i love this phase - here's a spell that won't be useful for all fights but when it is useful it has the potential to be really useful. that's an "interesting decision" (as sid meier would say).
an extra 15% damage, while sounding great for us, is not interesting. it's a bind.
all specs need to take it. the output of all specs will be balanced around them all having it. you'd have to minus 21 points from any spec you want to make.
my prediction is that this kinda happens anyway but with it's not so strong as to be a no-brainer and other options will need theorycraft to work out the best option.
Post by
Zhenbuyaoshi
No, there will be both curses and banes.
Curse of Elements will still be Curse of Elements
Curse of Agony and Doom will be changed to Banes.
I haven't read anything about Curse of Weakness or Curse of Tongues, so I guess they'll remain curses.
This gives the extra benefit of using Curse of Elements without gimping your dps ...
That's great news, then it could be done by the same Warlock on the same target, excellent! A little more coordinating to be done with fellow locks in groups/raids, but that's okay, we're supposed to be doing that anyway when there is more than one lock in the group so you aren't wasting time casting the same curse on the target :) Now, we'll all have to work on, which Curse, and which Bane we're all going to be casting; I like it!
I would have to say that I would have to skip the point in Bane of Havoc if it does not affect the primary target of the spell with it's own damage. 21 talent points down for a spell that does nothing most of the time? No, thanks. They take away the Devastation talent--5% crit chance to all Destro spells--and replace it with this Bane of Havoc, that does nothing usually, and kinda something situationally? How frustrating! Well, I guess I'm done talking about Bane of Havoc now, at least until we find out more about how it really works.
So it seems all the extra crit I'll be getting from the 300% firestone Master Conjurer talent, and then the Demonic Empowerment talent with the imp then channeled through Empowered Imp talent, was probably just too much for them to handle for us Destros to get, and still keep the Devastation talent, too. Oh well, then again, I don't know what will be being given to us in the Mastery System either, exactly, but in Destro, crit is definitely part of the deal. Looks like we might become the definitive critical strike masters without contest, that would be awesome.
But, why does it frighten me almost as if I can see the Ghost of Nerfing Future...
Post by
asakawa
the masteries are all public at this point.
destro
gets spelldamage, critical DAMAGE (not chance) and fire damage.
there was some discussion back and forth early in this thread about the potential of BoH. take a look at the first page.
it won't be great for heroics and 5mans but has the potential to be quite strong in raids.
it will depend on the content and the other options for those talent points but at this point, using affliction as an example, there's just so little to be gained by going down to ruin in destro and then dropping the rest of the points into demo or niche aff talents.
we know for a fact that some of the early talents in each tree will be reworked so i hope that we get some good alternatives to BoH for demo and affliction but we don't know yet.
Post by
595559
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
any build in cataclysm that doesn't go 51 points into a single tree will pay the new "hybrid tax" (^_^) of not getting full mastery benefit. this is likely to be crippling for any proposed hybrid build across all classes.
edit: none of this applies any more ^_^
Post by
595559
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
DW elemental is something different. GC has made comments recently (can't find source due to recent mass-spammage) discussing that DW will not be allowed to be an option for resto and elemental shamans though they haven't released info on how this is achieved.
also, all spellpower one-handers are typically classed as "main-hand" rather than "one hand" weapons.
edit: well, they released how they'd achieve that
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.