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2H Blood vs. DW Frost Tanking
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Post by
Elorivan
So, after reading through the helpful threads, I'm thoroughly confused. My DK is currently Blood Spec'd for DPS, and I'm trying to scrape together the gear for my tanking off spec. My main is a Pally tank, so I'm fairly familiar with the mechanics of tanking/tanking gear/tanking stats.
However, after reading the helpful threads, I'm pretty confused about whether I should spec as blood or frost for my tanking spec. I'll be tanking heroics mostly, and frost emblems will be spent on dps gear. Blood spec
here
, frost spec
here
, both taken from the helpful threads. Blood is for raiding, and frost is for beginner DK tanking? Or is it more gear based?
Lastly, I'm also confused about what to look for in a weapon. From what I understand, if I go frost and dual wield I need to make sure I have the proper amount of expertise and use either
Nerubian Carapace
or
Swordbreaking
, and if I go with Blood and a 2H weapon, I want a (more or less) dps weapon with
Stoneskin Gargoyle
or
Swordshattering
.
Slap me if I'm wrong, but help me out, will ya?
Post by
331845
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Post by
apocalypsa
Hmm... Blood is usually for raids, frost for hc's. Frost can be used for raids too but blood is much more viable, and vice versa. If you only do random's I'd spec
this
for 2h frost(you linked a 2h build) or
this
for DW. In both cases you can steal some points somewhere for 3/3 morbidity, but usually 2/3 is enough(i like 3/3 though). The difference between 2h and dw frost is marginal in hc's, doesnt really matter. this for hc's(dont use it for raiding though).
Weapons:
As blood you just want a big slow 2hander. Enchant it with Stoneskin, always, as the stam bonus is awesome of itself.
As frost you want 2 slow 1h's(2.50 or slower). Again, Nerubian as the stam is awesome and you will usually need the defence too.
The expertise cap matters this much: 0. Its nice to have on gear, but thats the case with blood too. As you are only tanking hc's you want to get hit capped, but most of your threat comes from DnD/HB/BB/diseases which all dont benefit from exp. Exp is a nice tank stat for raids, but really, its overestimated. Holding threat with or without it; its the holding threat that matters.
Edit: Beat me to it Evonath. Why do I always have to try and explain everything in detail(and make up those builds again as I cant find the right sticky...)
Post by
Elorivan
...(you linked a 2h build) or
this
for DW.
Thanks. I would have bee running around dual-wielding with a 2H spec.
Post by
Kelborn
The expertise cap matters this much: 0.
Please tell me you do not tank as Blood. Frost and Unholy it doesn't matter that much as their threat comes from magical damage, but it is crucial for Blood. Heart Strike, Rune Strike, and Death Strike are our top threat abilities. Even in Heroics as a Blood tank, your top damage (and thus your top threat) should be Rune Strike. To have that be dodged and parried is a serious loss of threat. Not as much for Frost or Unholy, but a lot for Blood.
Hit cap doesn't need to be reached, 5% is good enough. But if you're tanking Blood you need the Expertise cap.
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365547
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495174
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474779
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Post by
apocalypsa
The expertise cap matters this much: 0.
Please tell me you do not tank as Blood. Frost and Unholy it doesn't matter that much as their threat comes from magical damage, but it is crucial for Blood. Heart Strike, Rune Strike, and Death Strike are our top threat abilities. Even in Heroics as a Blood tank, your top damage (and thus your top threat) should be Rune Strike. To have that be dodged and parried is a serious loss of threat. Not as much for Frost or Unholy, but a lot for Blood.
Hit cap doesn't need to be reached, 5% is good enough. But if you're tanking Blood you need the Expertise cap.
Can perfectly be. But I'm tanking ICC without ever looking at my expertise.
Just did. It appears to be 29. But im 100% sure that you wont need to gem/enchant/specifically gear for that to happen. And btw, you are speaking about threat. If I had threat problems I'd just spam IT, which is NOT affected by exp and which gives insane threat.
Edit: and to the others: very true, but focus on the word: - Threat stat - . You know what that means? That its not needed. Why? Icy Touch! Its nice to have and I wouldnt know how to not reach soft-cap with gear, but really, threat isnt hard.
Post by
228908
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Post by
Elorivan
For the record: I only brought up expertise, because, as I understand it, dual-wielding offers more chances to miss than using a 2-hander.
Also, for those of you who've been sepculating, the expertise "caps" are 26 and 56 for soft/hard, respectively.
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228908
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365547
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Post by
drainyou
Very helpful thread - thanks for all the input here. I have looked through the lists of all one-handers from 60-80, but I'm curious if anyone has suggestions of a few in particular to seek or perhaps would be preferred for DK specific reasons. Else I'll just go with the 2.5 rule and anything with stam/exp on it.
Thanks for the lvl 80 heroic build. Would you have suggestions for DW lvl 60 and lvl 70 to follow or aime for? If not I'll dig through old threads. Common sense says to pick up a few things and it seems just from the 3 main AoE skills alone there may not be many ways to really 'gimp' yourself up to 80....but optimization is always nice. I'll keep digging around to see if I find some as well.
Post by
228908
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Post by
Kelborn
Sometimes I wish Blizzard hadn't done anything to Icy Touch threat. What's the point of being a physical damage buffing spec when you think all you have to do to keep threat is spam an ability your entire talent tree ignores?
I sincerely hope Blizzard alters this in Cataclysm. I am sick of seeing all the Icy Touch spam retards. Learn to play your class and you won't have to spam Icy Touch to make up for the threat gen you don't have.
Expertise is a crucial stat for Blood tanking because the entire talent tree buffs your physical damage and strikes. Those abilities are subject to being dodged and parried, and therefore if they don't land you lose threat. Rune Strikes that don't land are a huge threat loss to any spec.
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228908
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548052
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