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Holy plate itemisation.
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Post by
Pezwar
Well, as seems to be the main point in this thread, if it's not Haste / Mp5 gear, DE it.
It hurts my brain just to type that out...
Post by
pezz
Not exactly. I have plenty of pieces that aren't haste / mp5. I even shift+mouseover pieces with spirit out of curiosity, when they drop.
There's just a lot of people who don't like being told 'sorry, you don't even get a chance at half of the well itemized pieces for you, sucks to be a holy paladin' in the interest of 'fairness.'
I think, I would be less upset as a Shaman to hear 'you're going to have more competition for loot than you expected because of the holy paladin' than to be a Paladin and hear 'half the loot you wanted you are blocked from getting from the outset because of the resto shaman.'
Post by
skribs
'half the loot you wanted you are blocked from getting from the outset because of the resto shaman.'
The shaman gets competition on ALL gear. Would you agree to a system where half the plate gear goes to you and half goes to DE? This isn't saying the Paladin can't get mail, it's saying the shaman gets first priority. Just like the Pally gets first priority on plate, the druid on leather, and the priest on cloth.
Post by
228908
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pezz
'half the loot you wanted you are blocked from getting from the outset because of the resto shaman.'
The shaman gets competition on ALL gear. Would you agree to a system where half the plate gear goes to you and half goes to DE?
No, but my feelings about gear getting sharded when I could use it and my guild members getting pieces they can get good use out of are different.
This isn't saying the Paladin can't get mail, it's saying the shaman gets first priority.
Which means, if the shaman wants it, that the paladin CAN'T get mail. Unless you and I have very different opinions on what the phrase 'first priority' means.
Post by
skribs
Right, but the shaman can't get the plate if he wants that instead. It's not about making sure the Paladin has the best gear. It's about distributing loot fairly. It isn't fair for your shaman to have to /roll when there's other stuff you can get to hold you over. If your 245 is better than the 264 plate piece, it must be a very nice piece. Either way, you have the option to upgrade to a plate piece for the time being.
The shaman, on the other hand, has no option (besides downgrade to leather or cloth, which usually has spirit or hit). So while you have interim upgrades (if not, then what you have is 2nd BiS and should hold you over), the Shaman doesn't have the choice of 245 or sub-optimal plate - he is stuck with the 245.
Just remember these three things:
It can always drop next week.
If it's a guild run, whether it goes to you or the shaman, it is helping the raid. It is also going to help the raid more by going to the shaman, because they're more gear dependent than us.
If it's a PuG, you're not likely to do content that requires min/maxing anyway, and you can get *enough* stats (read: enough SP and Int to handle first 6 with ease, and haste cap) from plate gear.
Post by
228908
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
skribs
#1 applies to a shaman as easily as it does to a paladin
Except that the Paladin has possible plate upgrades. If the plate isn't an upgrade, then you're probably in 2nd BiS, and if the plate is an upgrade that can hold you over. The shaman has no alternatives.
#2 I'd argue that gearing up healers whose primary responsibility is keeping the tanks up is more important
When you don't have enough DPS alive because they weren't getting heals, you'll think differently. Besides, like I said - shamans are more gear dependent than us. For most encounters, as long as we have enough mana not to go OOM with proper management and 676+ haste, we're good.
#3 That argument applies just as easily to a shaman and using lesser gear or gear that isn't itemized properly.
True, but again the point is that shamans have no alternatives to mail (considering the "normal" stat allocation on leather and cloth). A paladin with crit+mp/5 gear is a lot better than a shaman with crit+spirit gear.
Those points were not "Why shamans should get the gear." Those points were "Why you should not be upset that shamans should get the gear." If it's a guild run, you can reserve certain pieces or once the shamans get it, you've got it. If it's a PuG, it doesn't really matter, because you're likely to do 4-6 bosses anyway. So getting all "OMG I CANT GET MAIL" makes you look very selfish in regards to loot.
Post by
299264
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
biogoo
Are you realy arguing about loot rules for mail in PuGs, beacuse some mail pieces are (so said) BiS for paladins, while PuGs are usualy strugling with 4-7 bosses on normal?:)
Post by
228908
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
skribs
Even as an HL spammer, there are a lot of things I use that would hit the cap at 676 haste: Divine Plea, cooldowns that aren't off the GCD, HS/insta-FoL while moving, cleanse, hands, beacon, SS, judgment, FoL during lulls. Past 676, haste is a preference, even for a holy light pally. At least from what I've seen.
You should be already able to keep up the tanks if you're in the run, so whether the gear is "keeping X alive" is irrelevant unless it's for progression to harder stuff. Which is why I think it doesn't matter in PuGs (you're not progressing in a PuG). So you're left with guild runs, where you have a much more consistent group. That consistent group means you can always get it next week.
I gotta say, those who keep saying they should have equal rights with a shaman...despite the shaman's handicap on gear...are looking more like you want YOU geared, rather than the raid geared.
Post by
228908
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
299264
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
PKainus
676 Haste will be "fine"; you're right. Non-epics are also "fine" for the first wing of ICC25 and for all of ToC25 (a EU guild has proven it, a full raid with non-epics), but
it does not mean you want to settle for that
. I brought it to an extreme, yes, but that's really what it boils down to. You, skribs, are okay with being "fine", while others (myself included) are not okay with being "fine".
Post by
228908
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
PKainus
Er, I apologize Caean... my post was directed to skribs. Edited my original post.
Post by
Frames
I just made a holy set a few days ago and im trying to upgrade it into all epics. I was wondering if Plate/ Mail is the only gear we should be rolling on and not cloth/leather. Since i've noticed mail has good holy stats on it.
Post by
462750
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
slasher0161
I just made a holy set a few days ago and im trying to upgrade it into all epics. I was wondering if Plate/ Mail is the only gear we should be rolling on and not cloth/leather. Since i've noticed mail has good holy stats on it.
Do the 5 point check.
Does it contain haste?
Does it contain Spellpower?
Does it contain mp5?
Can I equip it?
Are these stats in greater quantity then the previous piece I had equiped?
If you answered yes to all these then chances are its good for you.
Also this is another check you should run before posting on forums.
Is the topic dead redundant and barely relevant to what i'm about to post?
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