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Various Pros and Cons of the Races
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Post by
Monday
Here are some of my thoughts about the races (I was mowing a lawn for two hours so I had nothing better to do…)
((I will only do Human and Dwarven and Orcish leaders because they are the ones I know best)).
Alliance
Humans (Mainly of Stormwind)
Pros:
They were, and continue to be, the “white knights” of Warcraft. Anything holy or good has generally come to pass from the humans.
They protected the world from the evil (aka old) orcish Horde during the 1st and 2nd wars.
They are the vanguard of the Alliance. They are often the first into the battle fields and man the front lines in the battles against evil.
They have some of the best heroes (not best, but good…) Such as Uther, Turalyon and Khadgar.
Cons:
With the addition of the draenei the humans lost their one dimensional views and becamse quite evil. Before, the only human villain was Perenolde, and he was just trying to save his people (at the time). Now we’ve got the Cult of the Damned, The Defias Brotherhood and Wulfcult hanging around.
They brought several major villains (Arthas for instance. Arugal as well)
Broken into seven nations (Strom, Stormwind, Lordaeron, Kul Tiras, Gilneas, Alterac and Dalaran.)
Their Leader: Varian.
Pros:
Keeps a strong hold on the Alliance.
Fearless
And is a peerless warrior.
Cons:
Slow to put aside grudges.
Incredibly racist against Orcs and Forsaken.
Dwarves
Pros:
Fearless adventurers. If there is an expedition to an unknown land, the dwarves will be running it, or it will be made of mostly dwarves, or dwarves are funding it.
They are heavy on industrialization (which I see as a good thing. Feel free to argue, but it won’t get you anywhere).
The Wildhammers (First to joint he Alliance.)
Bronzebeards (Most active in the Alliance)
Cons:
They have a serious case of Manifest Destiny.
You may also count large amounts of industrialization as a con, (even though I see it as a pro >.>)
After an incredibly bloody war they split into three separate nations.
The Dark Irons (summoned Ragnaros).
One I suppose you could put as a half con half pro is that Ragnaros was summoned- Wrong. The incantation was incorrect and weakened him, allowing us to kill him.
Their Leader: Magni.(Bronzebeard)
Pros:
Strong
Possessing humility and family loyalty
Forged the Ashbringer
Cons: Unforgiving.
Gnomes
Pros:
Brightest people on the planet.
Their small size and natural agility makes them natural assassins.
They bring about most technological advances on Azeroth.
Cons:
Small population
Possessing almost no self preservation instincts.
Night Elves
Pros:
Beautiful.
They are the only race of the Alliance to practice druidism.
Defeated the Burning Legion in the War of the Ancients.
They hold the last Bastions of the Alliance in Kalimdor.
They kept the balance of nature for about 10,000 years.
Cons:
Arrogant
Xenophobic
Blew up the planet >.>
Draenei
Pros:
Made to be the White Knights of Azeroth.
They are firm in their faith in the Light
They are led by the Naaru
They use arcane, shamanistic and Light magics together creating a diverse society.
They have most Alliance bases in the Outlands.
Cons:
One dimensional
The eredar share the same race as them
If cut off from the Light, they can devolve.
Horde
Orcs
Pros:
Strong, but honorable.
They helped save Azeroth at the Battle of Mount Hyjal
They slew the demon Mannoroth, thus ending their blood curse.
They reintroduced Shamanism into the general world of Azeroth and continue to keep it.
They helped rediscover the land of Kalimdor and helped colonize it
They helped the Darkspear trolls and the Tauren, saving both from extinction.
Cons:
Brutal
They invaded Azeroth through the Dark Portal.
They destroyed their planet (Draenor)
They slaughtered the Draenei
They destroyed the Kingdom of Stormwind
They corrupted the Black Morass
The orcs are trying to get past all the bad things they have done in the past, but a lot more reparations need to be made before they can account for everything that they did.
Thrall:
Pros:
Wise
Led his people to safety
Remade the Horde into the way it is now
Most powerful Shaman on Azeroth
Cons:
Indecisive
Trusts too easily.
Trolls
Pros:
Helped the Orcs claim their new homeland Durotar.
Embraced Shamanism
Taught the orcs how to fight stealthily
((Add troll stuff here, I don’t know much that they’ve done.)
Cons:
Small numbers
Not much of a civilization
Tauren
Pros:
One of the only races on Azeroth to activy practice shamanism throughout their culture’s lifetime.
They worship the Eye of the Earthmother, which gives them the moon and night based druidic powers.
Their warriors are fierce and strong,
A wise people in general
Cons:
Their numbers were significantly lessened in the fight with the centaur.
Their civilization is lacking in culture areas such as museums and libraries.
Undead
Pros:
Being dead, their bodies are incredibly hard to kill- again.
The Forsaken possess the largest numbers of scientists in the Horde.
The Horde’s only major Foothold in the Eastern Kingdoms.
All of them had the Strength of will to break away from the mindless Scourge.
Go to any lengths to slay their enemies.
Cons:
The Wrathgate incident
Not exactly faithful allies
Sylvanas is, um… driven!
They want to kill all the living and the Scourge
They worked and still work with Demons
Blood Elves
Pros:
Most magical race on Azeroth, besides the Draenei
Hold most major settlements in Outlands
Very cultured civilization, possessing refined foods and art.
Cons:
Silvermoon, and indeed Eversong in general, is isolated from the Kalimdor based Horde.
During the battle with the Horde and the Scourge they’ve lost over 80% of their population.
They are possessing of an incredible lack of self control.
Their Leader: Lor'themar Theron-
Pros :
Shrewed politician, he managed to avoid any backlash from being Kael'thas' regent once Kael'thas betrayed the race. Great in negociations.
Aided by two of his three military leaders (Liadrin poofed out of existance post WotLK), Grand Magister Rommath and Ranger-General Halduron Brightwing
- Has complete control on his faction.
Cons :
Unable to accept that Blood Elf property... isn't (Quel'delar).
Generally apart from major Horde politics and decisions.
So there you have it. Just some of my thoughts on the various races, feel free to post your own pros and cons.
Post by
Adamsm
Eh, the problem with the humans is there is more then just one leader heh; all the Stromguarde humans follow Galen Trollbane, the Kul Tiras ones follow Tandred Proudmoore, Jaina and Theramore and so on. Should change that to the humans of Stormwind for Varian.
Post by
Monday
Eh, the problem with the humans is there is more then just one leader heh; all the Stromguarde humans follow Galen Trollbane, the Kul Tiras ones follow Tandred Proudmoore, Jaina and Theramore and so on. Should change that to the humans of Stormwind for Varian.
True, same with Magni.
Post by
Morec0
Its not bad and makes sense. Could use a bit of formatting, and you left out the leaders of most groups, or were you planning to go back and add them in?
Post by
Patty
Also, many of the pros and cons are highly arguable. Is the colonisation of Kalimdor really a good thing? In several respects yes, including the victory at Mount Hyjal, but the new settlements shifted the balance of the continent and likely had a detrimental effect on biodiversity; for instance.
Post by
Monday
Also, many of the pros and cons are highly arguable. Is the colonisation of Kalimdor really a good thing? In several respects yes, including the victory at Mount Hyjal, but the new settlements shifted the balance of the continent and likely had a detrimental effect on biodiversity; for instance.
I'm big on industrialization, I think I said that up there.
So all in all I like colonizing new things and utilizing their resources and all that. Its not bad and makes sense. Could use a bit of formatting, and you left out the leaders of most groups, or were you planning to go back and add them in?
Dotted, but I'm not sure if that makes it better. And I was kinda hoping somebody else would do the other leaders, as I don't know them enough.
Edit: Like I said, I made this list while mowing lawns, so it isn't mu best work or anything =P
Post by
HiVolt
Whoa, formatting overload there, Funden.
Gives a whole new meaning to "More dots."
Took some liberties with it, and came up with this:
Alliance
Humans
(Mainly of Stormwind)
Pros:
They were, and continue to be, the “white knights” of Warcraft. Anything holy or good has generally come to pass from the humans.
They protected the world from the evil (aka old) orcish Horde during the 1st and 2nd wars.
They are the vanguard of the Alliance. They are often the first into the battle fields and man the front lines in the battles against evil.
They have some of the best heroes (not best, but good…) Such as Uther, Turalyon and Khadgar.
Cons:
With the addition of the draenei the humans lost their one dimensional views and becamse quite evil. Before, the only human villain was Perenolde, and he was just trying to save his people (at the time). Now we’ve got the Cult of the Damned, The Defias Brotherhood and Wulfcult hanging around.
They brought several major villains (Arthas for instance. Arugal as well)
Broken into seven nations (Strom, Stormwind, Lordaeron, Kul Tiras, Gilneas, Alterac and Dalaran.)
Leader:
Varian.
Pros:
Keeps a strong hold on the Alliance (which is more than can be said for Thrall). Fearless, and is a peerless warrior.
Cons:
Slow to put aside grudges. Incredibly racist against Orcs and Forsaken.
Hope that helps.
Post by
Orranis
I think you're missing the point about Dwarves 'bad sidedness.' The reason their not bad is not industrialization, but because they are incredibly arrogant when they do it (this land is Titans land, this land is my land, the rest of you... Get the he-ll out. This land, was made for me and me) and the fact that they have very little regard for the more primitive races (What, were killing your animals, destroying your homeland, offending your beliefs, all on land we forcibly took from you? But... It's interesting...).
Post by
taurenmoo812
■Pros: Keeps a strong hold on the Alliance (which is more than can be said for Thrall). Fearless, and is a peerless warrior.
I never figured I'd be saying it, but your pretty clueless in saying that fun.
Varian isn't the defacto leader of all alliance races, and so given he doesn't govern them, he does less of the job then Thrall does.
Or are you saying magni's a worthless leader after all and the dwarfs need varian to lead them?
Post by
Monday
■Pros: Keeps a strong hold on the Alliance (which is more than can be said for Thrall). Fearless, and is a peerless warrior.
I never figured I'd be saying it, but your pretty clueless in saying that fun.
Varian isn't the defacto leader of all alliance races, and so given he doesn't govern them, he does less of the job then Thrall does.
Or are you saying magni's a worthless leader after all and the dwarfs need varian to lead them?
Varian basically leads the fight in Northrend. And I'm talking about the Wrathgate instance there. Magni doesn't do much in Northrend, he leaves it to Muradin (who is technically below Varian) and Brann (Ditto) and they only do expeditions such as Ulduar.
So yes Varian is their leader- For now.
I think you're missing the point about Dwarves 'bad sidedness.' The reason their not bad is not industrialization, but because they are incredibly arrogant when they do it (this land is Titans land, this land is my land, the rest of you... Get the he-ll out. This land, was made for me and me) and the fact that they have very little regard for the more primitive races (What, were killing your animals, destroying your homeland, offending your beliefs, all on land we forcibly took from you? But... It's interesting...).
I'm prejudice >.>
And thanks HiVolt =D
Post by
Rankkor
you can add another con to varian.
he's EXTREMELY easy to fool.
if goldshire gets atacked by twillight hammer cultists, they can actually get away with it free, since varian will be too busy blaming the horde and preparing a retaliation strike against a horde village rather than investigate the real culprits.
basically from his eyes: Something wrong happened=horde did it. and nobody exept anduin can pull him off that tunnel-vision.
that is both is greatest strenght and his biggest weakness, that obsession with the horde can (and most likely will) be used against him.
and another weakness for Thrall is that he shows dicipline to all but can't bring himself to do that with the sons of the people he cares for (in lord of the clans he backhanded and treathened to kill an orc who led an atack to a human village, but garrosh stages and organizes the broken front and gets promoted to warchief =/ )
Post by
Monday
you can add another con to varian.
he's EXTREMELY easy to fool.
if goldshire gets atacked by twillight hammer cultists, they can actually get away with it free, since varian will be too busy blaming the horde and preparing a retaliation strike against a horde village rather than investigate the real culprits.
basically from his eyes: Something wrong happened=horde did it. and nobody exept anduin can pull him off that tunnel-vision.
that is both is greatest strenght and his biggest weakness, that obsession with the horde can (and most likely will) be used against him.
and another weakness for Thrall is that he shows dicipline to all but can't bring himself to do that with the sons of the people he cares for (in lord of the clans he backhanded and treathened to kill an orc who led an atack to a human village, but garrosh stages and organizes the broken front and gets promoted to warchief =/ )
True, good insights.
Post by
taurenmoo812
Varian basically leads the fight in Northrend. And I'm talking about the Wrathgate instance there. Magni doesn't do much in Northrend, he leaves it to Muradin (who is technically below Varian) and Brann (Ditto) and they only do expeditions such as Ulduar.
So yes Varian is their leader- For now.
Oh so you do admit Magni can't lead his people and only varian can then? ok, least thats cleared up.
What a bullcrap thing to say still, seriously 'he does a better job then Thrall', he's been forcefeed into peoples minds like garrosh has, but neither of them truely represent the other races joined to there factions. The alliance of dwarfs, elves and humans joined because of lothar, varian didn't make the alliance what it is. Likewise, Thrall made the horde what it is today with him leadership bringing the races together.
I admit Thrall has weaknesses, thats what makes him a developed character and not a sue like rhonin. He's a orc raised by humans who now leads the the orcish culture who hate humans, that both makes its own problems, but also gives Thrall a greater understanding of those his people fight against.
You would have thought Varian would have some insight into the orcs from his experience, but instead, he acts with nothing but contempt and a want to wipe them all out.
Post by
Patty
Varian basically leads the fight in Northrend. And I'm talking about the Wrathgate instance there. Magni doesn't do much in Northrend, he leaves it to Muradin (who is technically below Varian) and Brann (Ditto) and they only do expeditions such as Ulduar.
So yes Varian is their leader- For now.
Oh so you do admit Magni can't lead his people and only varian can then? ok, least thats cleared up.That's not what he's saying.
At all.
He is saying that Magni is not very involved in the affairs of Northrend, letting his brothers explore and rule of their own accord, but Muradin and Brann's aims are not to lead the military spearhead into the heart of Northrend, that's Varian's aim. Magni allows Varian to command his forces, whilst he deals with other issues facing the dwarves.
What a bullcrap thing to say still, seriously 'he does a better job then Thrall',I didn't see any Alliance force, couped or not, killing hundreds at Angrathar. Those were Forsaken,
allies of the Horde.
he's been forcefeed into peoples minds like garrosh has, but neither of them truely represent the other races joined to there factions. The alliance of dwarfs, elves and humans joined because of lothar, varian didn't make the alliance what it is.Well, that's partially true; although the kaldorei and the draenei joined afterwards. Likewise, Thrall made the horde what it is today with him leadership bringing the races together.He built upon Doomhammer, and Blackhand's foundations. What Funden is saying is that Thrall cannot keep a tight enough rein on his allies, not that 'he didn't make the Horde what it is today', which you seem to have embedded in your mind for some unknown reason.
Post by
taurenmoo812
I didn't see any Alliance force, couped or not, killing hundreds at Angrathar. Those were Forsaken, allies of the Horde.
I killed dozens of cult of the dammed members in icecrown, will I assume there allied with the alliance because there human then? Don't drag that up again like a viable retort. They betrayed the horde. Maybe in a years time I'll saying the same thing about the worgen, and your be on the defensive then.
He built upon Doomhammer, and Blackhand's foundations. What Funden is saying is that Thrall cannot keep a tight enough rein on his allies, not that 'he didn't make the Horde what it is today', which you seem to have embedded in your mind for some unknown reason.
The horde was shattered after the war, and split apart. Even with doomhammer there he wasn't able to reform the horde and the orcs were in hiding, or held in the camps, which doomhammer didn't lead any attacks on to help free his people. It was Thrall who did it, it was him that lead and spered everyone on to free the orcs. You can try and rewrite what happened in lord of the clans as much as you like, but the facts stand.
I don't see anything that remarkable in what varians done in comparison. He slayed a dragon? Biiig whoop, he didn't lead his people to salvation and give them a chance to rebuild there lives.
Post by
Patty
I didn't see any Alliance force, couped or not, killing hundreds at Angrathar. Those were Forsaken, allies of the Horde.
I killed dozens of cult of the dammed members in icecrown, will I assume there allied with the alliance because there human then? Don't drag that up again like a viable retort. They betrayed the horde. Maybe in a years time I'll saying the same thing about the worgen, and your be on the defensive then.You do know that I prefer the Horde slightly more than the Alliance, right? As I said, the coup at Undercity is irrelevant. The members of the Royal Apothecary Society that committed the deeds at the Wrathgate were forsaken. The RAS itself was designed by Sylvanas. All Varithramas did was exploit it. Sylvanas was incharge of the forsaken, she let it go on under her watch, it's partially her fault the Wrathgate happened. However, Thrall is Sylvanas' superior, and if he couldn't keep her and her forces under a tight enough leash, that's his fault.
There was no Alliance coup, thus we can say that the Alliance is more stable than the Horde, and their leaders are less chaotic than the Horde's.
The horde was shattered after the war, and split apart. Even with doomhammer there he wasn't able to reform the horde and the orcs were in hiding, or held in the camps, which doomhammer didn't lead any attacks on to help free his people. It was Thrall who did it, it was him that lead and spered everyone on to free the orcs. You can try and rewrite what happened in lord of the clans as much as you like, but the facts stand. I'm not denying anything. The orcs wouldn't have united after they were freed in the first place if Blackhand and Doomhammer hadn't already consolidated and purged the Horde. Thrall isn't some miracle worker who happened to charm everybody and save them all from the big, bad, mean humans. He had help, which cannot be denied. Doomhammer and Hellscream's roles were pivotal in liberating the camps.
I don't see anything that remarkable in what varians done in comparison. He slayed a dragon? Biiig whoop, he didn't lead his people to salvation and give them a chance to rebuild there lives.
Overseeing the rebuilding of Stormwind certainly did, to quote you, 'give his people a chance to rebuild their lives.'
He helped to somewhat defuse the situation in Warsong gulch, if only temporarily, through both combat and diplomatic negotiations. I didn't see Thrall fighting for Ashenvale, or allowing the kaldorei their own lands back after Hyjal.
He has so far led a successful campaign into Northrend, which he personally oversaw from Stormwind. Thrall gave command of the Horde campaign to Garrosh instead.
Post by
HiVolt
Overseeing the rebuilding of Stormwind certainly did, to quote you, 'give his people a chance to rebuild their lives.
Might be a little nitpickery here, but what timeframe are you referring to exactly? Are we talking about the time directly after the Second War, because the overseers of that rebuilding were Turalyon and the various peoples under his employ(including both Gelbin Mekkatorque and Edwin VanCleef) according to
Beyond the Dark Portal
, at least that is what's implied in the book (from what I remember).
Or are you referring to the regaining of control and "rebuilding" of sorts after the riots enacted by the Stonemason's Guild?
If it is the latter, I see it as a much less powerful argument to that note.
Post by
Rankkor
:P I'm just nitpicking here, but putting "being the brightest people on azeroth" doesn't really fit the gnomes.
I mean, their great solution to being invaded was to nuke their own city :P like that's not gonna come back to haunt them.
ohh they found an ancient robot on borean tundra, let's turn it on with no safety precautions whatsoever, what could go wrong?
at best they are a very Ingenious race, but a smart person would know the proper aplications of what they develop.
also take in mind that goblins used to be much much smarter than the gnomes, at the apex of their civilization, their machines were 10000 times more advanced than today's gnomish ones. (they did created the demon soul and deathwing's armor)
the problem was that their inteligence was tied to the kajamite ore, wich started to decline over the millenia, and so, today the inteligence of a goblin is about the same as a gnome, with the diference that they aim their inteligence in diferent directions.
on cataclysm there's a new surge of kajamite being discovered, in the lost island, lots and lots of kajamite tought to be lost forever :P
also, I stand by what I said about varian, you can put all the features you want with him, but you can't deny that his background has made him biased against the horde and the orcs, whenever ANYTHING happens, he's not gonna bother to do a research, he will imidietly assume the horde did it.
pff, it would be a breeze for deathwing to send troops to atack stormwind disgised with horde tabards, and while most leaders like velen, magni, thrall cairne or voljin would research just who atacked and why, varian would auto-asume the horde did it.
heck if the moon falls from the sky and crashes on stormwind, I can tottaly picture varian comming out of the bathroom in a blueish bathrobe with a towel on his hair, shaking is fist in the air and yelling GOD-DAMNED HORDE!.
Post by
Adamsm
/sigh, And the topic descends into Varian bashing....
Post by
Rankkor
na, not really, is just that funden hasn't added that con to the varian section of the list :P
just add "easy to fool" and presto, well, maybe not on those words, he's not easy to fool in ALL areas, just easy to make him believe that the horde did something, he really doesn't need much convincing.
come on bro' u can't deny it, just look at stormrage :P how he auto-assumed at first that the reason for his people getting into a comatose sleep was the horde's doing. that's a con, because that is a weakness that can (and will) be exploited by cunning villians like Deathwing.
plus my last coment made a reference to gnomish and goblin intelligence.
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