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Prot Pally: A Comprehensive Starter Guide v4.0.1
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Post by
Elorivan
I'm currently working to revamp this guide again. Once I'm completely sure on the 4.1.0 changes, you can expect some updates. Currently the Gems, Enchants, Starter Gear, and consumables sections are out of date.
Being a Paladin Tank can be a fun, interesting, and at times challenging job. This guide will help you be a competent paladin tank without the pain of too much trial and error. Let's jump in.
Note:
Everything I'm recommending here is under the assumption that you are a beginning Paladin tank, level 85, and will want/need to switch between main and off-tank as necessary, and that you will pug an occasional raid. That said, there wouldn't be that many changes if you were raiding as main tank with a set group, but realize there's more to being a tank than what I've written here. Check out the other guides here in the forums for more ideas.
Talents & Glyphs
A basic all-around level 85 tanking spec looks something like this:
. There are some varying opinions on some of these talent points, so I'll explain why I chose what I did below.
A Word on Word of Glory:
Word of Glory
(WoG) is a useful, instant-cast heal that consumes Holy Power. It is great for soloing and questing. Before patch 4.1 a lot of tanks, myself included, used a WoG focused spec that took advantage of
Eternal Glory
and rank 2
Guarded by the Light
. Patch 4.1 gave WoG a 20 second cool-down, make a WoG - focused spec much less viable.
Talents You Should Know:
o
Sanctuary
- This talent is awesome. Crit-Immunity, damage reduction, and mana return, all in one. What's not to like?
o
Hammer of the Righteous
(HotR) - This is your AoE Holy Power generator, and creates decent AoE threat. However, it won't hold a group of mobs by itself, expecially if the dps are pounding a mob that isn't your primary target.
o
Shield of the Righteous
(SotR) - An excellent, hard-hitting ability that generates a good amount of threat. This is your primary Holy Power dump.
o
Grand Crusader
(GC)- Avenger's Shield is great for pulls/AoE, and this talent gives our two primary abilities a chance to refresh it.
o
Divine Guardian
(DG) - This gives you some good raid utility, and is something that only Prot Paladins can bring. Incredibly useful for encounters with raid/party-wide damage.
o
Sacred Duty
o
Ardent Defender
(AD) - This is your "Oh fetch, I'm gonna die!" ability, The 20% damage reduction is nice, but the proc is what makes this ability unique. A hit that literally would have killed you, will now heal instead, giving your healers just a tad more time to land their huge heal on you.
o
Hallowed Ground
(HG)- Consecration can be quite helpful for establishing threat in AoE situations - add tanking, or 5 man dungeons. Without this talent, consecration is a HUGE mana drain.
Not taken:
o
Improved Hammer of Justice
- (HoJ) Primarily a pvp talent, this can be situationally useful, mainly on fights that have adds that need to be slowed. However, the base cool-down of HoJ is a minute, so even fully talented you're still looking at a 40 second cool-down, making this marginally useful at best. Take points from
Hallowed Ground
if you
really
want this.
o
Reckoning
- This is now an excellent single-target threat talent, but single target threat isn't much of an issue due to
Vengeance
. For all-around utility, I don't recommend it. For progression content however, you may want to swap the points out of Hallowed Ground for this.
Glyphs
With the changes in 4.0 to glyphs, and with
being relatively cheap, it should be simple to swap glyphs depending the encounter you're doing.
Prime Glyphs
o
- Recommended. You should be using
Seal of Truth
while tanking. 10 Expertise is a rather large chunk, and in addition to being one of our best threat stats, expertise also reduces a mobs chance of dodging/parrying an attack.
o
- Recommended. SotR is one of our best threat generators, and an extra 10% is an excellent boost.
o
- Excellent for trash and AoE/multi-target encounters. Reccomended for heroics/AoE encounters.
o
- Excellent for single-target fights.
o
- Unfortunately, this is rather lackluster as a tanking glyph. Not recommended.
Major Glyphs
Most Major Glyphs are situationally useful - swap them around according to your needs. For general utility, I recommend the first 3.
o
- A nice time reduction on one of our longer cool-downs.
o
- Useful on trash/AoE. Currently, the daze effect lasts 10 seconds. On a pull, this gives you plenty of time to establish aggro, and in a AoE situation this will prevent some incoming damage and thus save your healers some mana.
o
- Useful on trash/AoE.
Holy Wrath
now hits all mobs in a ten yard radius, making it a decent AoE ability, and being able to stun additional mobs can come in quite handy (see above).
o
- Gives a nice boost to your Avenger's Shield. Very useful for single target encounters.
o
- Useful for specific encounters with bursts of magic damage.
o
- Extending the duration/cooldown of consecrate will save you mana on some AoE intensive fights.
Minor Glyphs
Our Minor Glyphs are all pretty meh.
o
-
Seal of Truth
isn't that expensive, but this'll get more mileage than the other seal glyphs.
o
-
Blessing of Kings
isn't very expensive, and you shouldn't need to cast it more than once to bless eveyone in your party/raid, but a mana decrease can't hurt.
o
- just like the above, a mana decrease can't hurt.
Abilities & Rotation
Abilities that you should know, use and love as a paladin tank:
o
Righteous Fury
(RF) - ALWAYS have this active while tanking. Without this, you're much worse than the dps threat-wise, which probably means somebody is going to die.
o
Shield of the Righteous
(SotR) - An excellent threat generator. At 3 holy power, this hits incredibly hard, and should be your primary holy power dump. Because of how it scales, you should rarely, if ever use this without having 3 holy power.
o
Hammer of the Righteous
(HotR) - This is your AoE holy power generator, and is decent AoE threat.
o
Crusader Strike
(CS) - This is your single-target holy power generator, and deals decent single-target damage.
o
Judgement
(J) - This is a decent means of mana return Via
Judgements of the Wise
.
o
Avenger's Shield
(AS) - A nice multi target ability. Perfect for pulling groups, or for some AoE damage. A
Grand Crusader
proc resets the cool-down on this, which is great for AoE tanking. When used within 6 second of a GC proc, you'll also gain 1 holy power.
o
Hand of Reckoning
(HoRec) - Single target taunt. This no longer has a damage component, so you'll likely need to hit the taunted mob a time or two after taunting to make sure it stays on you.
o
Holy Wrath
(HW) - The 15 sec cooldown makes this ability slightly less attractive, but it's still a nice little AoE ability for maintaining threat whenever HotR and AS are on cool-down.
o
Consecration
(Cons) - Use this wisely. The tick alone isn't going to hold aggro on anything, and it has a relatively long cool-down. Throw it down on really large packs of mobs, but know that this is going to be a low-priority ability in most situations.
o
Avenging Wrath
(AW) - Your "wings." Good for popping to establish initial aggro, or during a burn phase during an encounter.
o
Righteous Defense
(RD) - Multi-target taunt. This has a few mechanics that can make things interesting. It has a 40 yard range, but that range is to the friendly player that you're assisting. Thus, if the player is more than 40 yards away, and the mobs are running towards him, you won't be able to taunt the mobs off using this. The other thing to be aware of is that while off tanking, this can accidentally pull the boss off the main tank, so be careful when using it.
o
Divine Protection
(DP) - A nice 20% damage reduction, and only a 1 minute cooldown! Pop it early and often.
o
Guardian of Ancient Kings
(GoAK) - A 50% damge reduction on a 3 minute (talented) cool-down. Use it wisely, but don't be afraid to pop it regularly.
o
Divine Shield
(Bubble) - This should be used very judiciously in a raid setting, as it temporarily removes you from the aggro table because you become immune to all damage - which means whatever you have aggro on will attack someone else for the duration of the bubble. Rarely, if ever, should you let it run its full duration while tanking. This can be used to remove various debuffs, and for a second or two to avoid extremely large amounts of incoming damage. I recommend key-binding a macro like the one below, which will cancel the bubble if it's already active, and cast it if possible.
#showtooltip Divine Shield
/cancelaura Divine Shield
/cast Divine Shield
For more macros, see this
Maintankadin
page.
o
Hand of Sacrifice
(HoSac) - This is a very nice cool-down that is often overlooked. In a raid setting, this should typically be used to redirect damage from another tank to yourself, giving your healers a bit of breathing room. Use this when the other tank is tanking a lot of damage, and you are taking little to none.
o
Hand of Salvation
(HoSalv) - This can be useful for making sure there's a smooth transition between tanks, or for keeping that uber dps from pulling aggro during the first few seconds of a fight. Additionally, this is very hand for encounters that require raid-wide threat management, like Heroic Lady Deathwhisper.
o
Lay on Hands
(LoH) - When things get really dicey, this is a cool-down that you'll want to use. Don't be afraid to pop it if you think you're going to die, though you should generally use
Ardent Defender
first. Causes
Forbearance
.
Post by
Elorivan
Rotation
Prot Paladins no longer have a set rotation to follow while tanking. Like most other classes, we now have to prioritize our abilities based on cool-downs and holy power. Additionally, our prioritization changes if we're in an AoE situation, rather than a single-target situation.
If X, Y, and Z are all abilities, and our prioritization looks like this: X > Y > Z, X should ALWAYS be used before Y or Z whenever it is off cool-down, and Y should always be used before Z, but after X when both are off cool-down. It does NOT mean do X, then Y, then Z.
o
Single Target Priority:
Shield of the Righteous
+ 3 Holy Power >
Crusader Strike
>
Avenger's Shield
(Glyphed) >
Hammer of Wrath
(Below 20%) >
Judgement
>
Consecration
>
Holy Wrath
o
AoE Priority:
Hammer of the Righteous
>
Consecration
>
Holy Wrath
>
Avenger's Shield
>
Judgement
Spend your Holy Power on
SotR
or
WoG
, as appropriate, to keep
Holy Shield
up.
How I do a Typical Pull
The rotations above assume that you are already within melee range of your target. When you're not, here's what I would do.
Single Target:
o
Get within 30 yards of the boss.
o
Pop Divine Plea for 3 HP, and then use Inquisition and Avenging Wrath.
o
Pull immediately with Exorcism.
o
Use
AS
as you start to run in,
Judge
as you close the gap, and
CS
as soon as you're in melee range, and drop into the rotation.
o
Use a 3 holy power
SotR
to cement your threat lead.
o
During a boss encounter, keep your eyes open for adds, and be ready to taunt as necessary.
AoE:
o
I typically pull with
AS
.
o
If
AS
is on cool-down, and the mobs are tightly grouped, I'll run in and use
HotR
.
o
If the mobs are more spread out, or I have to wait longer for the mobs to get to me, I'll usually throw down
Cons
or
HW
(if Cons is on cool-down) first, then use
HotR
and
AS
as the mobs converge on me.
o
Keep an eye out for mobs that you didn't grab initially, and have a taunt ready to bring them to you.
Auras & Blessings
As a pally tank, you should be aware of which aura/blessing you are using, and coordinate with other paladins (and sometimes the raid leader, though I've generally found that they expect you to know what to do, so don't expect an aura assignment every fight).
If multiple paladins are using
Devotion Aura
and
Blessing of Kings
, it's redundant and less effective. On some encounters, you'll get more mileage from using
Resistance Aura
than you will out of the extra armor from
Devotion Aura
.
Blessing of Kings
now has the same effect as
Mark of the Wild
, so if you have a druid or another paladin in your group, you'll want to coordinate, and possibly use
Blessing of Might
instead.
Generally, I recommend
Devotion Aura
and
Blessing of Kings
as your standard for groups, and deviate as appropriate.
Add-Ons
The add-ons listed here are the ones I use, the ones I consider necessary for tanking. There are alternatives, but these are the most commonly used.
o
Omen
, a threat meter. Highly recommended.
o
Tidy Plates
, a nice nameplate add-on that re-skins the nameplates, and can show a "tug-of war" threat bar. You can also configure the size and transparency of nameplates, depending on whether or not you have aggro. Highly recommended.
Some Useful Sites
o
Wowhead
- Duh. Loads of excellent tools, and most dungeon/raid pages have the TankSpot video guides attached.
o
The Elitist Jerks Prot Pally Thread
- Very in-depth look at being a Prot Pally. I recommend you read this at least twice - more if you're serious about being a raid tank.
o
Theck's Maintankadin TPS Analysis
- A very mathematical analysis of how talents, seals, and weapons (and more!) affect threat. Very useful, and he usually updates the thread with each patch.
o
Maintankadin 4.0 FAQ
- A decent FAQ with some helpful links at the end.
o
TankSpot Video Guides Forum
- Useful for seeing and reading up on fights.
Gearing
Stat Priorities
This section should give you a general feel for what stats are important for tanking, and which stats are better than others.
o
Stamina
is generally your most important stat.
o
Strength
is your biggest long-term threat generation stat, and contributes to your attack power and parry.
o
Expertise
is the best threat stat up to the "soft cap" of 26, but don't feel like you need to stack it. You'll already have 10 expertise from the
glyph
, and there is a decent amount of expertise on most tanking gear - you should be able to reach 26 expertise without actively seeking expertise gear. Additionally, expertise will prevent mobs from parry-hasting (on mobs that can parry-haste) and hitting you more, effectively making expertise a mitigation stat for those encounters.
o
Hit
: Hit decreases the chance of your attacks missing, and is a big factor in your burst threat. Like expertise, there is a decent amount of hit on tanking gear, so you shouldn't go out of your way for hit.
o
Dodge/Parry
: Both dodge and parry %'s suffer from diminishing returns, which means that the more of each we have, the less effective it becomes. As a result, after a certain point it becomes better to reforge these stats into Mastery, which gives us Block. You'll want to keep your dodge just above 21.6% and parry just above 21.44% when reforging.
o
Block
: A blocked blow reduces damage by 30%. There is a "block cap," which, when reached, means that any attack you take is either a miss, parried, dodged, or blocked. The following macro, when used in-game, will tell you how close to the block cap you are.
/script DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage("Need 102.4 combat table coverage. Currently at: "..string.format("%.2f", GetDodgeChance()+GetBlockChance()+GetParryChance()+5))
An Aside About the Combat Table
The combat table is what WoW uses to determine the outcome of each combat action. Instead of rolling a dice to see if you hit, and then rolling another dice to see if the hit is critical, there is one roll that determines the outcome.
Let's say you have 5% chance to miss, 50% chance to hit, and 45% chance to crit. The computer does a /roll 100, and if the # is 1-5, you miss. If it's 6-55, you hit, and if it's 56-100 you crit.
Every attack has a base chance to miss, be dodged, parried, blocked, be a crit, or be a normal hit. As a tank, we're concerned about the chance we have to dodge/parry/block/be missed by the boss we're tanking. It's been calculated that in order to be missed, to dodge, parry or black every incoming attack, we need 102.4 combat table coverage. The macro above will tell you where you currently sit, and
Holy Shield
gives an additional 15%. Reforging for
mastery
, as mentioned above, will help you reach the block cap.
Gems
o
Meta:
o
Red:
to match meta requirements.
o
Everywhere else:
Use a
. The only time you shouldn't throw a stamina gem in a socket is for matching the meta requirements (which is the
that I just mentioned).
o
Socket Bonuses
: The theory-crafting community has determined that it's acceptable to match a socket color
if
the bonus is high enough - usually +9 or +12 stamina, and if you only have to sacrifice one gem to do so. Don't match the bonus if you have to swap out more than 1
Solid
to get the bonuse (ie. don't go for a bonus on an item with a red and a yellow socket).
Enchants
This is not an all-inclusive list for every possiblity, rather, these are what I consider to be good starting options.
o
Head:
o
Shoulder:
o
Back:
Mighty Armor
o
Chest:
Super Health
o
Wrist:
Major Stamina
o
Hands:
o
Belt:
. Not really an enchant, but grab one and put a
in it.
o
Legs:
o
Feet:
Tuskarr's Vitality
o
Weapon:
Accuracy
o
Shield:
Post by
Elorivan
"Starter" Gear:
This list is a compilation of items that are (mostly) from Dungeons, Heroic Dungeons, and vendors. This is intended to be a list of solid tanking gear that is fairly easily available to players. I recommend farming heroics for triumph badges and the items below that are drops, in order to quickly put together a pre-raid tanking set.
Head:
Neck:
until
Shoulders:
Back:
Chest:
Wrist:
until
(
Alliance
)
Hands:
Waist:
Legs:
.
Feet:
Get
made.
Rings:
and
.
Trinkets:
and
.
Weapon:
to start,
next, and
until you get something from ICC.
Shield:
until you get
.
Libram:
Note that if you get this exact set, you should re-forge and pick up some hit rating.
Becoming a Tank
Personally, I recommend a path to becoming a tank that looks something like this:
o
Roll as a dps in heroics to farm badges/gear for your tanking spec. Make sure you clear with the tank before rolling on a tanking item.
o
Pay attention to where the tank stands, how he approaches various mobs, etc. If a wipe ensues, don't copy him. If you clear the instance with ease, it's okay to copy him. However, also pay attention. For most instances/raids, there is a generally accepted way of clearing. Stick to the norm - consistency is a big part of tanking.
o
Once you have a decent set of gear, throw it on and jump into a couple
regular
dungeon runs in order to get familiar with your rotation. You might want to re-read the "Rotation" and "How I do a Typical Pull" sections above. If possible, get some forgiving guildies/friends to run with you.
o
Once you've successfully tanked a couple regulars, queue up for a heroic. I'd do this one without guildies. If you're going to farm badges or for gear, you'll probably be doing a lot of heroics, and many of them will be without guildies. Be prepared to take some flak - I once got told to never tank again because I was going slower than a particular dps would have liked.
o
Keep looking for upgrades, and always look for better ways to approach encounters, but never forget that WoW is a game - it should be challenging AND fun.
Other Considerations
Professions
This list is
somewhat
prioritized, with better tanking professions at the top, and less useful professions at the bottom. The choice is yours to mix and match them however you'd like.
Jewelcrafting
Dragon's Eye
Gems x3.
A decent
trinket
, though it should be replaced at higher gear levels.
Blacksmithing
Extra
sockets
.
Mining
Toughness
is nice.
Can be paired with Jewelcrafting/Blacksmithing.
Leatherworking
Extra
stamina
.
Cheap
leg enchant
.
Enchanting
Enchanted
rings.
Engineering
Extra
armor
, and
stamina
.
A few decent
equip-able
items
, replaced at higher levels.
Inscription
A nice
shoulder enchant
.
Alchemy
Mixology
.
A reusable
Mana Potion
.
Skinning
Extra
crit
.
Herbalism
A
little heal + haste
.
Tailoring
Nothing worth mentioning.
Consumables
These are what I recommend bringing with you to any raid.
o
Dragonfin Filet
,
Blackened Dragonfin
, and
Slippery Eel
are all viable options.
o
Flask of Stoneblood
o
Indestructible Potion
Final Musings
Opinion and non theory-crafting follows, so feel free to skip these few lines.
Being a pally tank isn't always an easy job, but there are some definite perks, including but not limited to: not worrying about your dps, loot priority (sometimes), instant random queue, and you're indispensable to raid/dungeon groups - if you die, they die.
Despite the perks, don't let the power go to your head. Every tank needs to be something of a leader, but that doesn't mean you can abuse your raid/party/guild. Yelling at your healers after a wipe doesn't help anyone. Don't be a !@#$%^ - you'll make more friends, and more friends means more raid invites.
Additionally, being a tank generally comes with additional responsibility - tanks are often leaders in their guilds/raids, and leadership is often deferred to tanks. Raids depend on you to be in top performance, which generally means you need to constantly be optimizing your gear/gems/enchants and you'll always be using consumables, which can get expensive. I like this quote which, to me, kind of sums up both of these points:
It is an extremely costly endeavour to gem at max, (and I'm going broke trying to do it now) but people don't care about you, the tank. They only care about their time, their repair bills, and if you didn't have the extra life to prevent the wipe, they hate you (not their low dps or healing abilities).
Lastly, realize that being a tank is at least as much art as it is science. There are good ways to handle encounters, and there are bad ways, but there is no perfect way. There are far too many variables that play into the success of a given encounter to ever guarantee a "perfect" strategy. What this means is that, first, there's always room for improvement, and second, don't be afraid of making mistakes. I've learned more from my wipes than I have from my 1-shots.
Great tanks aren’t great tanks because they’re raiding. They’re great because they’ve endured the mental bumps and bruises of time. They’ve learned to take responsibility for their attitude and their actions and through doing so, they’ve learned how to make others trust them.
- Veneretio, admin of TankingTips.com
Now get out there, and make me proud!
Post by
Elorivan
Partial Update 5.2.11
Reserved, just in case.
Post by
338789
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Elladin
Great Write up, I've been reading all about Prot Pally Gearing, Caps etc. and this really helped with my research.
Hopefully I'm able to get my tank rollin' shortly!
Edit:
Sticky vote!
Or rather, A link in the Helpful threads post
Post by
79224
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
hatman555
Do not use a nightmare tier, that is a dps gem. If you are using the proper
meta
one
Shifting Dreadstone
in a red socket that gives you the best + stam bonus
Per Gem
is the way to go. If you must match socket bonuses, Hybrid gems are your friends, Hello Mr.
Eye of Zul
10 stats is also a Dps enchant, if you don't use the defense use
Health
. Also
this
enchant is better for avoidance than armsman. For weapon
Mongoose
Really you reccomended
this
as a tank?
Put
this
on your shield and go about your day.
Also consider
this
if you don't feel you need the small bit of avoidance.
This
is your tank food. make nice with a fisherman.
Oh yea, some other people are going to come along and compain about defense not having a cap, so just fix that bit too.
I could just type this all up, copy the links, say blah blah blah blah.....or, i could quote it and have you read it all again, and say
"YEAH! what he said!"
Cheers,
Hat
p.s. I did like the way you did bullets tho. I might just steal that down the road.
Post by
473372
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
hatman555
Everything I'm recommending here is under the assumption that you are a beginning Paladin tank, and will want/need to switch between main and off-tank as necessary, that you will do pugs a decent amount, and that you are satisfied with not having every detail optimized for being a raid main tank. That said, there wouldn't be that many changes if you were a raid main tank, but realize there's a lot more to being a tank than what I've written here.
People play this game at different levels. This guild is a very, very basic approach to tanking. It lists many different enchants with your opinions on how good they. You opinion based on what the majority of casual players experience, easy content designed for the masses. There is nothing wrong with this. Blizzard makes their millions on the masses. Your tanking guild will be very useful for the basic player that is just starting out. But rest assured, that tanking goes way way beyond what you have listed here.
o
- Marginally useful at best. I've never had issues with my taunts not working, even when I was just beginning to tank and not very well geared.
Again, for lower difficulty encounters, you might not notice a problem with taunting. But, when you need to relay on a taunt working 100% of the time, or nasty nasty things will happen, well then this glyph because a ton more useful.
o
- This glyph is pretty useless as a tank. because
(
Alliance
) is your tanking seal, you'll never need this while tanking.
I'm actually surprised at this one. Your going to be tanking casual stuff, in these situations, your going to run out of mana. Maybe your DP has fallen off too, and your sitting for 30 seconds before you can cast anything because you are at ZIPO for mana. This glyph allows you to switch to a very very nice mana generating seal, to get your reserves back up to a functional level. when your waiting for mana, this babe is beautiful. All the other glyphs, have 0 usefulness, they just are their to make buffing easier. Buffing is for pre-fights, and you can easily drink before a fight if buffing drains your mana. You can't drink while dwarfs are chopping at your kneecaps!
Auras & Judgements
As a pally tank, you should be constantly aware of which aura/judgement you are using
I couldn't agree more......sooo what one are you using? It sounds to me like you are using Judgment of wisdom. You should only be using Judgment of wisdom if there is another holy paladin in the group, who is very good about judging the boss. You don't need mana, your party members, (tho they might !@#$% about it) don't need mana. If you are the only paladin, or even if you are with a ret paladin, you should be judging LIGHT!
Other Talents You Should Know:
Divine Sacrifice
! OMG DUDE! omg!
This is by far my favorit talent. Its a personal CD, its a raid CD. its a party/raid saver! Divine Sacrifice is a must for 5 man's 10 man's, and I'm keeping it in my 25 man hard-mode progression.
This is defiantly worth your 3 points in Reck.
Lets look at your toon.
http://www.wowhead.com/profile=us.kargath.thracken
The first thing that will jump out at people is your socketing. It makes sooo little sense, its like you took a grab bag of possible gems and just started putting them everywhere, You got luck with some socket bonuses, and unlucky with others....
o
You are socketing STR for threat I assume, yet you are not hit capped. Hit does more for threat than STR until you are hit capped.
o
You are socketing for defense over 540....which is ok, if you are doing it to make a socket bonus for stamina WITH stamina. You have Def/STR Def/dodge....
o
Dodge is good, Agi is better in ICC these days, but dodge is still good. Dodge/stam, is better tho.
o
+10 all stats gem. These are nice for DPS looking to match for blue's in their meta's we as tanks should have no problems matching for blues. Take it out!
o
I went back at looked at it, your not even using the +10 gem to match anything. You have it in a colorless socket.
Wow so ya, that was socketing. On to enchanting.
o
+10 stats to chest. DPS efficient+275 health to chest, tanking efficient +22 Def to chest, more tanking efficient if you are under 540
o
+25 hit and crit on weapon. while it is the biggest threat enchant for you because you are under hit cap. Mongoose or +26 agi are really nice because they give you mitigation that a tank needs as well as a bit of the threat your looking for
o
+20 def to shield is very efficient enchant, ....unless you are again over Def min 540, which you are. At that point +18 stam or plating is better.
o
+20 hit on gloves? again you are going for that threat. Why not just add some arms man and get the parry too? or skip it completely and add some stamina!
o
You'll get more Effective health from +225 armor to cloak.
Ok
So here is your toon redone.
http://www.wowhead.com/profile=21383972
Here is what you gained and lost:
Gained
260 Sta
225 Armor
10 Parry (0.2%)
15 Resilience (0.18%)
Losed
6 Agi
10 Int <--not important
10 Spi <--not important
30 Str
45 Defense (9.15)
86 Dodge (2.19%)
25 Crit (0.54%)
95 Hit (2.9%)
*+2% Threat from Armsman
HEALTH AND MANA
-150 mana
+2,600 health
Now take into account that this is before +10% from kings, and that the wowhead stats are a bit off, but since we are comparing wowhead to wowhead, the %changes should be about accurate.
Now, it may look like you are losing a lot. You are shifting from a casual tank to a more hardcore tank. You are shifting from doing a lot of lifting yourself, to being a solid support in a raid, and letting the other classes do what they specialize in, healing and DPS.
Most people on these boards will chose the redone version of you. But it is a game, and if you are having fun and doing well. Then keep on doing what you do.
You put a ton of work into the guide, that is very very clear. The formatting is great (HA! told you I would steal those bullets) and the Linking is amazing. I love seeing all that yellow. Thats why I'm posting what I posted, to give you something to think about.
Cheers,
and good luck
Hat
Post by
Elorivan
Pretty solid guide for the most part, three things that would make me disagree:
1)...Not taking TbtL is hampering your threat, and 2/2SA is overkill.
2) ...they already have a lot of avoidance built in.
3) "Additionally, being a tank generally isn't a low-stress role." I find it very low-stress...
Finally, I'd suggest new tanks also go over to wowwiki and look up their paladin macros. In particular is the one-button 96969. It should not be relied upon... Can sometimes screw you up a bit after a panic.
1)
As for the talent spec, it's now been fixed to what I originally intended, thanks for pointing that out. My personal preference is not to pick up
Divine Sacrifice
, which I'll explain in a minute.
2)
"They already have a lot of avoidance built in" is what I meant, I'll change the wording on that.
3)
Hmm. Might need to rework the wording there too. Personally, I find the actual mechanics of tanking to be easy - it's the additional responsibility that most people find overwhelming. If tanking were easy all-around, everyone would do it.
I despise the one button macro - it's very inflexible/limiting. I'll put a link to the WoW Wiki macro page, though, for those that want to check out the possibilities.
Do not use a nightmare tier, that is a dps gem. If you are using the proper
meta
one
Shifting Dreadstone
in a red socket that gives you the best + stam bonus
Per Gem
is the way to go. If you must match socket bonuses, Hybrid gems are your friends, Hello Mr.
Eye of Zul
10 stats is also a Dps enchant, if you don't use the defense use
Health
. Also
this
enchant is better for avoidance than armsman. For weapon
Mongoose
Really you reccomended
this
as a tank?
Put
this
on your shield and go about your day.
Also consider
this
if you don't feel you need the small bit of avoidance.
This
is your tank food. make nice with a fisherman.
Oh yea, some other people are going to come along and compain about defense not having a cap, so just fix that bit too.
Edit: wrong stam enchant on shield
One of the issues with gemming/enchanting is that it's incredibly situational - every toon is different. When you're first gearing, it's often all about defense and hit, and hybrid gems probably aren't the best way to gem at that point. Later on, when you've passed the Defense, Hit and Expertise "caps," feel free to mix it up (which is a reason I recommended the profiler). As for
Nightmare Tear
, I take it because it's 10 Strength, Agility, and Stamina in 1 slot, I don't take it to match sockets or to meet the meta requirements - just a matter of personal preference.
I'll be changing out some of my gems in the next few days - it's been quite a while since I paid much attention to them.
Shield enchant - it's a matter of preference. Stamina stackers will, of course, want
. Defense, however, is always a decent stat -which doesn't necessarily mean it should take priority, but it's not a bad thing to take - because even past the 540 mark it still contributes to Dodge, Block, and Parry. Just to clarify, though, I'll be switching to the Stamina Enchant
Food/Weapon Enchants - again, it's preference. If you want an all-around tanking food,
Blackened Dragonfin
is a solid choice, and I've added it to the list. But what if you want avoidance? What about threat?
Theck's TPS Analysis
shows that for pure threat,
Berserk
is going to give the highest dps/tps and your food choice depends on where your hit rating is at. Does he recommend Berserk? No. But it is a
possiblity
if you are looking for threat (and only threat). Theck also concludes that:
Note that Mongoose and 26 Agility are the only enchants that gives effective health (via armor). Mongoose works out to about 264 armor (24 stamina worth of effective health) when the buff is active, while Agility works out to be 58 armor (5.3 stam). Mongoose isn't "always on," so it's debatable whether you would count it as true effective health, but even with a 40% uptime it's about twice as effective as the Agility enchant on average.
So, I've added Mongoose to the enchant options,
was never an avoidance option, and for anyone who was thinking about whining about it, the term "defense cap" means "defense value minimum."
A whole bunch of stuff.
- As I understand it, if you're at the hit cap (8%), you shouldn't have problems with taunts, unless you're continually taunting the same mob with both taunts, in which case you might have an issue due to diminishing returns. Can anyone confirm/deny me on this?
&
JoW
- First, I'd like to point out the dichotomy in your arguments for these points - you say the Glyph is useful because "
your going to run out of mana
," and then you state that "You should only be using Judgment of wisdom if there is another holy paladin in the group, who is very good about judging the boss.
You don't need mana
, your party members, (tho they might !@#$% about it) don't need mana."
Well, which is it? =p I judge
Wisdom
, and never use
Seal of Wisdom
, and the only times I have mana issues is when I tank regular level 80 dungeons and don't get hit enough for the healer to actually be healing me regularly.
Divine Sacrifice
- The buff to
Sacred Shield
is nice, I admit. The main problem I have with this is that it is almost always viable in times of extreme raid-wide damage, and to be most useful is usually paired with
Bubble
or
HoP
. Now, if you're an off tank with a macro for this, that's wonderful, and your healers will thank you. As a main tank, however, you run the risk of dropping aggro if you want full mileage out of this, and when people are taking that kind of damage and you drop aggro, it only takes a second or two before half the raid is dead. If you're having to pop this in 5-mans, get the dps to
not
stand in the fire, and make sure your healer is awake. I will add this to the "Talents you should know" section, however, because it can be useful, and despite my preferences is probably something every pally should know.
As for tweaking gems/enchants on my toon, here's what I'd do:
o
The
original
.
o
Your
tweaks
.
o
Gear
comparision
for original/your tweaks.
o
My
tweaks
.
o
Gear
comparison
for original/my tweaks.
One of the issues I have with your tweaks is that I go from (Wowhead stats for all of this, bear in mind) 7.23% Hit all the way down to 4.33% Hit. Boiling it down:
Your Changes:
+2200 Health
+220 Stamina
+213 Armor
+0.17% Physical Damage Reduction
+2% Threat
+0.18% Resilience
-150 Mana
-68 Attack Power
-34 Strength
-22 Block Value
-9 Defense Value
-6 Agility
-2.9% Hit
-2.61% Dodge
-0.16% Parry
-0.36% Block
-0.66% Crit
-10 Intellect
-10 Spirit
My Changes:
+181 Armor
+100 Health
+10 Stamina
+70 Attack Power
+35 Strength
+23 Block Value
+0.76% Hit
+0.15% Physical Damage Reduction
-22 Agility
-10 Defense Value
-2.68% Dodge
-0.40% Parry
-0.40% Block
-0.97% Crit
Is 2200 health and 213 armor (before buffs) worth it? Does it make me hardcore if I do have it? Not really, in my opinion. Having 50k+ health (which is what I get now while raid buffed), if I'm dying it's not because I don't have that extra 2200 health / 213 armor.
Finally, I
knew
I should have copyrighted (or something) the bullets. =)
Post by
79224
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
hatman555
- As I understand it, if you're at the hit cap (8%), you shouldn't have problems with taunts, unless you're continually taunting the same mob with both taunts, in which case you might have an issue due to diminishing returns. Can anyone confirm/deny me on this?
I can! Taunts, like a couple of other paladin skills, are based on SPELL hit cap. Which is 17% Using this glyph is the only way to truly get none missing taunts, unless you go crazy with hit.
&
JoW
- First, I'd like to point out the dichotomy in your arguments for these points - you say the Glyph is useful because "
your going to run out of mana
," and then you state that "You should only be using Judgment of wisdom if there is another holy paladin in the group, who is very good about judging the boss.
You don't need mana
, your party members, (tho they might !@#$% about it) don't need mana."
Well, which is it? =p I judge
Wisdom
, and never use
Seal of Wisdom
, and the only times I have mana issues is when I tank regular level 80 dungeons and don't get hit enough for the healer to actually be healing me regularly.
Ha! well yes, there is a dichotomy in what I was saying, because there is a dichotomy in what you will be doing. In a 5/10/25 man, you won't need Seal of Wisdom, because you will be receiving healing, or dodging or be out of combat and able to drink.
I propose glyphing for seal of wisdom for those times when you are on your own, doing your dailies and either you jumped into combat with out getting yourself sanctuary, or combat came to you when you had no mana. You find yourself getting hit by dwarfs in a mine, when all you really want to do is get your JC daily done so you can go make a sammich!
Honestly tho we are both arguing a mute point. Its like I'm telling you to take a boat to Europe, while you are saying take a sub....screw it, we have planes. It doesn't really mater, its just personal preference.....damn subs are cool tho....
Oh and while I'm typing this post I'm setting up pally power for our 25 man raid. we have 3 paladins. I'm giving kings, Holy is giving wisdom, and Ret is giving Might. We have a disc priest in the raid, so there is no point in giving Sanc, mana problems don't existed when your getting hit for 40K a second.
Divine Sacrifice
- The buff to
Sacred Shield
is nice, I admit. The main problem I have with this is that it is almost always viable in times of extreme raid-wide damage, and to be most useful is usually paired with
Bubble
or
HoP
.
Most of the times, the way fights are designed, when there is high raid damage there isn't high tank damage. When there is high tank damage there normally isn't too high raid damage. So use DSac as a 20% CD when no one is taking damage, and use it as a raid CD when your not taking damage.
Anyways, they changed the skill, it no longer transfers all the raid damage to you. It now just transfers 30% of the party your in damage, and provides a flat 20% reduction to everyone else in your raid. No more dangers here. Amazing for 25 man, really really good (50% reduction) in 5 man heroics.
Is 2200 health and 213 armor (before buffs) worth it?
Omg yes.
Does it make me hardcore if I do have it? Not really, in my opinion. Having 50k+ health (which is what I get now while raid buffed), if I'm dying it's not because I don't have that extra 2200 health / 213 armor. There is a difference between min maxing for 50 health or 100 health and saying that its not going to make or break you. But 2200 health before kings is a HUGE number. That's like taking a stam trinket off and leaving the slot open.
Also, hit for paladins is over rated. I won't socket for hit unless I'm under 4% Just remember to keep that glyph in for taunts!
Finally, I
knew
I should have copyrighted (or something) the bullets. =)
o
HA!
o
ITS
o
TOO
o
LATE
o
muaaahahahaahaha
Cheers,
Hat
Post by
Elorivan
...don't even mention it because someone will come along who is clueless enough to use that enchant.
Heh, hadn't considered that - it's now been removed. I'd never forgive myself if a Paladin out there went all "I CAN HAZ OOOBER THRAET WIF BEZURKIN!" because I mentioned it could generate threat.
...it is still a good idea to not leave out hybrid gems.
Nice wording. =) Point taken, though. I've started to rework the gem section, and I'll make the additions when I've successfully compiled the list.
Taunts... are based on SPELL hit cap. Which is 17%...
Independent
confirmation
, in the form of an external link to this wow.com post on bear tanking. Look under section 11, the second sentence after the bullets.
Anyways, they changed the skill, it no longer transfers all the raid damage to you. It now just transfers 30% of the party your in damage, and provides a flat 20% reduction to everyone else in your raid. No more dangers here. Amazing for 25 man, really really good (50% reduction) in 5 man heroics.
The 20% damage reduction would definitely get you some love from your healers. The fact that the damage transfer only applies to your party makes this more "Meh" in my view, but hopefully that won't stop anyone from taking it. I have further edited my comments on
Divine Sacrifice
in the "Talents You Should Know" section to make it clear that this talent is a viable option.
Post by
pezz
- As I understand it, if you're at the hit cap (8%), you shouldn't have problems with taunts, unless you're continually taunting the same mob with both taunts, in which case you might have an issue due to diminishing returns. Can anyone confirm/deny me on this?
I can! Taunts, like a couple of other paladin skills, are based on SPELL hit cap. Which is 17% Using this glyph is the only way to truly get none missing taunts, unless you go crazy with hit.
You don't actually have to go that crazy. 17% spell hit is a lot less hit rating than 17% melee hit, and anyway you don't need 17% spell hit in the first place. Only 14% (13% with a draenei). You still won't be taunt hit capped (made that set of words up on the go, there) if you're right at the melee cap, but it doesn't take too too much more to make taunts surefire after that. Not as much as you'd think intuitively, at any rate.
Post by
602074
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
543855
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
hatman555
Apologies if I'm not suppose to be posting here or anything, but I've been reading through this and was wondering about the seal of vengeance you spoke of in the beginning. As a tank am I suppose to be useing that instead of Seal of Command?
Seal of Vengeance is THE tanking seal for single target fights.
Some people like to use Seal of Command because of the way it works with paladin abilities. Its functional for quick multi target fights.
Seal of Vengeance works too tho.
Longs story short, is that Seal of Vengeance is for Single bosses. Anything else is not worth that much worry tanking.
Also, why not get spiritual attunement glyph to help with mana?
the glyph give 2% more mana on the skill. So with being the glyph you can either have 7% mana return or 12% mana return depending if you have 1 or 2 points in the skill.
1 point, is good enough for mana return. We have other skills that give us more mana return in low damage situations, and in high damage situations 5% is wayyyyyy more than enough.
Anyone who is specing 2 points into SA is wasting points.
Cheers,
Hat
Post by
312504
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
hatman555
Edit: Sticky vote! Or rather, A link in the Helpful threads post
No. Why sticky a post with false / bad information?
Agreed. Sorry but the guide needs a lot of work OR to be renamed to a "starting tanking guide"
Potential is there tho.
Cheers,
Hat
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