This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
Cataclysm, meditation and spirit.
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
svirve
Thought I'd share this since with the addition of the Passive mastery bonus from holy granting us Mp5 from spirit is definitely going to have people going "ZOMG SPIRIT FTW MANA REGEN PWNNSSS!11111!one0n3!11".
At the moment intellect gives you about .5 Mp5 per intellect.
Item point conversion goes as follows: 1 INT = 1 IP, 1 Mp5 = 2 IP.
Thus INT is our number one stat for Mp5, ironyyy (high pitched voice).
That is very old news though and almost common paladin knowledge.
However, in cata we'll be gaining mana regeneration from spirit (the useful kind not the $%^&ty O5SR stuff).
This is going to widen our alternatives for gear (or let blizzard make less gear), but by how much, or at all?
First, it's not clear how much mana regeneration meditation is going to add, that hasn't been announced yet.
As far as i know, the official changes to mana regeneration other than Mp5 as a stat being removed hasn't been announced yet.
But to make some assumptions.
Druids keep
50%
of their mana regeneration when casting.
Priests keep
50%
of their mana regeneration when casting.
I know shamans get it somewhere just cant remember where.
So lets say we get 50% as well, would seem like a fair deal.
Mana regen from spirit is affected by the amount of intellect you have so lets assume one has 1500 intellect. We also have 500 spirit (that's 500 IPs previously spent on Mp5).
That gives us, roughly 540 Mp5 when not casting, or 270 when casting.
Which means an increase of 20 Mp5 over the current system.
However in lower gear levels it's going to be a decrease in mana regeneration.
If the formula for mana regen stays as it is, int will still be our greatest stat for mana regen, but spirit will be a pretty awesome stat as well. Getting better and better the more intellect you have.
P.S. I bet this doesn't make much sense, i wrote it over 2 hours and it was pretty much just ranting. I found it interesting to do though.. enjoy!
Post by
Patty
Int is being modified though, so I don't think the intellect/mana regen formula will stay the same.
Post by
pezz
Intellect
Intellect will now provide spell power. To compensate, it will also give less mana than we are used to seeing.
Sounds like anything percentage based is getting nerfed.
Post by
svirve
Int is being modified though, so I don't think the intellect/mana regen formula will stay the same.
I'm betting int is still gonna be king for mana regen.
It provides mana regen through buffs itself and it boosts the amount of mana regen you get by spirit.
Post by
pezz
I'm thinking there might be a ratio that people shoot for between int and spirit, sort of like the 1.88:1 for tanks.
Because just about anyway I can think of that int increases regen gets nerfed if the int per mana conversion gets nerfed.
Post by
299264
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
biogoo
There will be no five second rule, as there will be just one type of mana regen. Thus there will be no meditation-like talents.
With how the stats get stripped off, with no mp5 (just spirit) and no spellpower (just int), I suppose we will simply equip whatever highest ilvl drops.
And if you dont like it, there will be this reforging, where you are allowed to add stats not existing on the gear, like reforge (int + sta) into (less int + less sta + some spirit). Or something like that.
Post by
skribs
Svirve, you've apparently missed the class change posts (check the cataclysm section of this site). Meditation is no longer going to be a talent, it is instead going to be the second mastery bonus for having more points in Resto/Holy/Disc than any other tree. All 5 healing specs will have Meditation, which (based on the fact that Blizz wants to remove the 5SR) will be 100% of your spirit-based regen while casting, or 2% per talent point up to 50 talent points (they don't want people to spend 76 points in one tree just to get an extra mastery bonus).
The numbers will change, so we cannot theorycraft now. However, keep in mind that the formula is based on the
square root
of the Intellect and the
amount
of spirit. Every point of intellect adds less spirit-based regen than the last, but every point of spirit adds the same. So going from 10-20 intellect will see a much bigger increase than 1000-1010 int, but 10-20 spirit will be the same as 1000-1010 spirit. With higher stat values in Cata (imagine 2500 being the normal Int/Spi for an entry-level character) the factor extra Int plays will be even less in your spirit-based regen.
Sqrt(1600) = 40
Sqrt(2500) = 50
Increase in 56.25% int = increase in 25% of the int-based coefficient in the spirit regen formula. At least as it stands right now.
Also, with less mana per int (which factors into your MP/5 indirectly, e.g. if you assume a 5 minute fight, then every 60 mana = 1 mp/5 in terms of sustainability), you're looking at a nerf to DP, Replenishment (which I believe was going to be nerfed further to reduce dependency on it), and Seal of Wisdom. Those could be changed, but I'm pretty sure in Cata that Int will be a combination throughput+regen stat (by giving SP and mana), but Spirit will be our primary regen stat.
If Int remains the primary regen stat, that means pallies would ignore spirit, and Blizzard wants all stats to be good for what they do. I doubt you'll see the same regen from Int in Cata as you do in WotLK.
Post by
299264
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pezz
Just to play devil's advocate, they have repeatedly said that mindlessly spamming your big heal to keep everyone at 100% is going to be a very bad thing, and that tank damage is going to be much less spiky. In the back of my mind I'm wondering if they'll fail to realize what this means for Seal of Wisdom. Sure, each proc might be a bit less impressive, but it sounds like we'll have a lot more time to melee. I know it's on a PPM, but who really gets all 15 PPM*? I don't even manage that in normal modes.
If they don't realize how many more SoW procs we can get (and I'm right and we can actually get more procs) int might still be the best mana regen stat. Otherwise, I'm going to stack spirit if I find myself needing more mana.
*I know it doesn't quite work like this, but you know what I mean.
Post by
svirve
Svirve, you've apparently missed the class change posts (check the cataclysm section of this site). Meditation is no longer going to be a talent, it is instead going to be the second mastery bonus for having more points in Resto/Holy/Disc than any other tree. All 5 healing specs will have Meditation, which (based on the fact that Blizz wants to remove the 5SR) will be 100% of your spirit-based regen while casting, or 2% per talent point up to 50 talent points (they don't want people to spend 76 points in one tree just to get an extra mastery bonus).
I guess i must've missed it since i don't mention mastery at all, absolutely not on the first line of my post.
I didn't know that blizz wanted to remove the 5SR though.
The numbers will change, so we cannot theorycraft now. However, keep in mind that the formula is based on the square root of the Intellect and the amount of spirit. Every point of intellect adds less spirit-based regen than the last, but every point of spirit adds the same. So going from 10-20 intellect will see a much bigger increase than 1000-1010 int, but 10-20 spirit will be the same as 1000-1010 spirit. With higher stat values in Cata (imagine 2500 being the normal Int/Spi for an entry-level character) the factor extra Int plays will be even less in your spirit-based regen.
Sqrt(1600) = 40
Sqrt(2500) = 50
Increase in 56.25% int = increase in 25% of the int-based coefficient in the spirit regen formula. At least as it stands right now.
I never said i was doing any theorycraft, i was making assumptions and guesstimating based on how it looks now and what changes we know about.
Yes you use the square root of intellect, but you only use 0.5% of your spirit and it's going to be even less at 85, I'm going with what pezz said, a ratio between the two will be optimal.
Also, with less mana per int (which factors into your MP/5 indirectly, e.g. if you assume a 5 minute fight, then every 60 mana = 1 mp/5 in terms of sustainability), you're looking at a nerf to DP, Replenishment (which I believe was going to be nerfed further to reduce dependency on it), and Seal of Wisdom. Those could be changed, but I'm pretty sure in Cata that Int will be a combination throughput+regen stat (by giving SP and mana), but Spirit will be our primary regen stat.
If Int remains the primary regen stat, that means pallies would ignore spirit, and Blizzard wants all stats to be good for what they do. I doubt you'll see the same regen from Int in Cata as you do in WotLK.
Which i addressed, I still believe int could be our main mana regen attribute in cata as it is now in WotLK.
Right now int is our primary regen stat, still we don't ignore other regen stats. Why would we in cata?
There is nothing to doubt, we'll see less regen from int in cata than we do in WotLK. But it could still be a greater source of regen than spirit.
Post by
299264
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
182246
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pezz
And Seal of Wisdom. I might be wrong on that one, then.
My guess is that there'll be a theoretical ratio, but you could stack spirit like crazy and never hit the point where you want int, and that we'll have throughput problems if we try to do that anyway.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.