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Did i really deserve to get guild kick?
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Post by
150529
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
150529
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
150529
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
TheJohan
Actually,
Trolling is a game about identity deception, albeit one that is played without the consent of most of the players. The troll attempts to pass as a legitimate participant, sharing the group's common interests and concerns; the newsgroups members, if they are cognizant of trolls and other identity deceptions, attempt to both distinguish real from trolling postings, and upon judging a poster a troll, make the offending poster leave the group. Their success at the former depends on how well they — and the troll — understand identity cues; their success at the latter depends on whether the troll's enjoyment is sufficiently diminished or outweighed by the costs imposed by the group.
Trolls can be costly in several ways. A troll can disrupt the discussion on a newsgroup, disseminate bad advice, and damage the feeling of trust in the newsgroup community. Furthermore, in a group that has become sensitized to trolling — where the rate of deception is high — many honestly naïve questions may be quickly rejected as trollings. This can be quite off-putting to the new user who upon venturing a first posting is immediately bombarded with angry accusations. Even if the accusation is unfounded, being branded a troll is quite damaging to one's online reputation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_
(Internet)
Post by
150529
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Erethzium
IMO, screw a guild that doesn't let you pug things. You should be glad you're out of it.
And not letting you pug things that they never run? That's just insane. Why should they care if you're doing outdated raids for fun? Who/what is it hurting?
Post by
150529
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
TheJohan
1) Wikipedia is always correct amirite?
2) I didn't receive any 'enjoyement' except from that of a debate. I was/am trying to have a genuine debate in which, in all honesty, only see responses like 'lol,u suk' and 'lol, rules r 4 losers' etc. If you have a proper arguement, trust me,i would be glad to hear it. Insulting me, my guild, or the OP's guild without any arguement behind that is, to say the least, immature.
3) seriously, that's what you got from my 3 posts? The definition of the word 'troll'?
The other stuff was boring. Always fun to read wikipedia.
Post by
pezz
"Don't pug ten mans" =/= "Don't pug ten mans, including those which are over a year old at this point at which are not on the guild calendar"
The trick is, most people would assume that the first statement essentially meant the second one, just based on common sense. I mean, what possible reason would the guild have to care if you get yourself saved to a raid they have no declared interest in at all? This is why rules always need to be extremely explicit in their intent. You get problems like these if they are not. And don't say 'the guild shouldn't have to add that in, it should be obvious to anyone' because it really, really isn't. No one cares about OS anymore if it isn't the weekly, so there's no reason to expect a serious raiding guild to care, either.
Regardless, if a rule is not clear, in the long term it's the responsibility of the person making the rule to clarify it, but in the immediate short term the person planning on technically breaking it needs to ask for a more explicit answer before breaking it. 'I didn't know' is not a valid excuse when it would have been extremely easy to find out.
I think the kick was a little harsh for what really was a fairly petty infraction, but not even asking beforehand says 'my judgement as a random member of this guild is sufficient to fully understand the intent of even vaguely written rules, to the point that I don't even need to ask a readily available officer' is pretty much not okay. I would've been upset as an officer, although I wouldn't have kicked you.
Of course, if I was an officer, this problem wouldn't have happened because I'd have pointed out that the rule was vague.
Post by
150529
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Erethzium
no one,i am pretty sure if he asked, they would let him.Obviously,if people want to pug there is a guild that suits them.....somewhere in the server. He entered a guild he knew didn't allow pugs. When you accept the rules you either follow the rules or leave.
No one was forcing him to stay anyway
You don't need a guild to pug. Isn't that the definition of pug? And OS10 isn't ICC25H, so I don't see the big deal about pugging it.
Oh, and nice job twisting my post around into a flame against the OP. :)
"Don't pug ten mans" =/= "Don't pug ten mans, including those which are over a year old at this point at which are not on the guild calendar"
This explains it quite well.
Post by
150529
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Post by
Erethzium
i didn't 'flame' or 'twist' anything
Mmhm.
I'll stop feeding the troll now.
Post by
150529
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Post by
534868
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Post by
131584
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Of course, if I was an officer, this problem wouldn't have happened because I'd have pointed out that the rule was vague.
The rule is not vague. It's quite clear, and simple...3 words in fact. If you can't wrap your head around it, then you shouldn't be in a guild to begin with.
One of my guilds uses OS/Naxx/Ulduar as training arenas to get newer people used to raiding. With gear not a problem, then can focus completely on understanding fight mechanics. Now, we don't have a rule like that, it's more of an understanding, but people still get told out if they pug a 10-man without checking with the GM or Officer.
I can see why he would want to only use these resources if he can 'pay' back, in some way. Don't dissuade this, it's a positive trait with wider applications!
The people in the guild are resources, the guild's time is a resource, etc.
Very narrow-minded people here.
Post by
Braevia
Are you just being intentionally obtuse? If you're using OS as a training ground, fine. You can legitimately request that members not PUG it, because you're running it. But if it's not on the guild calendar, you have no defensible reason for doing so. OP's guild officer is a tool, and you're kind of a tool for defending him. Authority for authority's sake isn't leadership, it's just #$%^&*baggery.
Post by
Isobelle
Rules are meant to be broken. Do whatever you want and make your own guild. You pay a monthly fee, so ^&*! your old guild for being a bunch of #$%^&*bags.
Oh wait... that's not right, is it?
Umm... sorry you got kicked, but rules are rules even if they are a bit on the lame side.
Post by
pezz
Of course, if I was an officer, this problem wouldn't have happened because I'd have pointed out that the rule was vague.
The rule is not vague. It's quite clear, and simple...3 words in fact. If you can't wrap your head around it, then you shouldn't be in a guild to begin with.
One of my guilds uses OS/Naxx/Ulduar as training arenas to get newer people used to raiding. With gear not a problem, then can focus completely on understanding fight mechanics. Now, we don't have a rule like that, it's more of an understanding, but people still get told out if they pug a 10-man without checking with the GM or Officer.
I thought this would happen. Vague was the wrong word, I realize - it's technically extremely explicit. No 10 mans, right down to Karazhan. We catch you in Kara - instant kick. My point was that the technical explicit meaning of those four words is extremely far from what they imply, and what they imply makes a lot more sense as a rule for a guild. Because really, why is a guild going to kick you for pugging Kara, especially if it's not on the calendar? It's technically a ten man, after all, so technically against the rules, but that's a pretty dumb rule. Now, I realize we're talking about OS, not Kara, but Kara's included in there, too. It says 'no 10 mans' and I'm talking about a ten man.
The implication I'm trying to direct attention to is that 'no pugging 10 mans' implies 'no pugging relevant ten mans' if left at those four words. It makes no sense to prevent people doing obsolete raids that aren't on the calendar, and it makes a great deal of sense to prevent people doing relevant raids that are on the calendar. When all a guild has to do to remove an implication is tack on 'this includes any and all WotLK raids,' I see no good reason to instead get defensive and just say 'well technically it makes sense. If you try to use common sense you're just doing it wrong.' I mean, it's not like typing is hard in this day and age, surely.
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