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There should now be NO complaints about GearScore the addon
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Post by
161859
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Braevia
Checking WoW Heroes also forces you to actually look at their gear. If they have added to GearScore so that it now adds in a static value for enchants and gems, good for them. It's still an unnecessary add-on that is, without exception, employed by morons. I have literally never met anyone who uses or defends the add-on that I would trust to run a PUG for a holiday boss, let alone actual raid content.
Wow heroes does not force you to look at gear. It has a single number in the middle of the top of the page. If you choose to only look at that number, then you are as clueless as the folks who only use the Gearscore number.
And yes, Gearscore has changed to include every aspect which you like about wow-heroes. So it is essentially wow-heroes in the game (vs opening a web browser). No different at all. If you like wow-heroes, then you would like Gearscore.
Now, I do understand how come many people hate the gearscore addon. It is because some idiot with really high standards didn't let you raid. The thing is - that is not the fault of the addon. It is the fault of the idiot. BUT - that is why I would suggest that Gearscore (and wow-heroes) removes the "number" and replaces it with "tier content they can do". Otherwise, it's just too easy for baddies to misuse it.
To ignore the gear when checking someone on wow-heroes would require you to avert your eyes from the center of the screen (where your eyes are naturally drawn). It would require an act of defiant stupidity that even the worst failtard could scarcely muster.
A better solution for fixing the GS problem is for the guy who developed it to withdraw the mod, them throw himself in front of a train. It was a bad idea, executed badly, for the sake of bad players who want to lead raids (badly).
Post by
skribs
Actually it's quite easy to ignore the gear on WoW-Heroes. Especially if you do a comparison. I'm talking about when I've used wow-heroes to check each of the other healers in my guild to see what their GS is compared to mine (when I'm top healer) and so I just look them up to see the number. On W-H my druid was around 2400 when the other 4 in the top 5 healers were 2600-2700, yet I always out-healed them. Now it makes sense that my paladin is top healer when I'm >3k, but the other healers are 2900 and below. Granted it's easier now that I've found the guild filters, but looking them up individually and forcing it to refresh each of them, I was still able to see only the number without looking at their gear.
I guess this is another advantage of GS (or simlar): It allows you to tell who has more skill once inside a run. I can, for example look up our 3 magi who are 2200, 2600, and 2800, and when I see the 2200 on top of the meter I can suggest she councils the other two on how to play their class.
Post by
Rubendesmet619
gearscores, achievements, blablabla.
Link me 3 heroic epic pieces and I'm happy.
Post by
skribs
Achievements and Heroic pieces don't exactly prove anything either. I am on one of the worst realms (233/241 US) but I am by no means a bad player. If you're in a bad guild (for whatever reason - in my case its 4th best on my faction on the realm but we're only 6/12 ICC 25N and are having trouble with Rotface still) you're not going to get those achievements.
Plus, you may have done the raid on your main and are now on an alt. My warlock has no raid experience, but yet I've taken 2 healers into ICC and lead heals on both of them. So am I a bad player because my warlock doesn't have the achieve? Or am I a bad player because my guild doesn't have 25 people with the gear, focus, and skill to do heroics?
(We have the gear, and some players with the skill, but not 25 with the skill)
Post by
Rubendesmet619
Can we please stop the &*!@ing talk about alts/grandmother's characters etc.
If you are on an alt, then just freaking talk and 90% of the RL's wil let you in if you sound a bit friendly.
That's at least my experience on an alt or 4 I have at 80.
Post by
218949
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Arcolite
Gearscore wasn't needed in Vanilla or TBC to form groups and it isn't needed now either.
It's a good mod, don't get me wrong, I can see it having uses. However the way it's being used by the majority of the WoW community is completely wrong.
I use Rawr and Excel sheets from Elitest Jerks to find my BiS items, which a lot of times results in me wearing lvl219 or 200 item simply because it works out better for me. This WILL have an impact on my gearscore and most of these Gearscore loving Raid leaders wouldn't understand that. They would see that lower ilvl item as a weakness.
I've just moved one of my alts to a new server to level and gear up. My Main has cleared Uld10 and ToC10 Heroic modes and has about 5100 gearscore. However, if people look at my Shaman Alt then I look like a complete novice. I have only Triumph Emblem gear and absolutely zero raid achievements.
Now, using the current Gearscore ranking system that most Raid Leaders use, I'm less worthy than people with 5k+ gearscore. However I _know_ my class, I know that I've geared as best as I can from what I have access to and most importantly I know the tactics! However, the "link achievement+GS plzkthx" crowd wouldn't be able to find this information out from a number. Most of the time if your gearscore doesn't meet what they're after you just get ignored so you never get the chance to explain what you could offer.
If anyone with the mod actually uses it properly and does /gs while ingame they'll see that someone with 4800-4900 gearscore is verging on overgeared for everything outside of Tier10 content. That means Gearscore is completely irrelevant for Nax, Uld, ToC and most importantly VoA.
Post by
etrin
for some reason 5k seems to be the magic number.
If you are lower you will not get in ICC10.
heck a lot of toc10 won't take anyone less than this.
But I think a lot of this is not that a 4910 gs person can't do well.
but for some reason 5k is magic and it means you are a good player etc.....
yea right I have tanked toc10 with my lowbie 4880GS bear but its not 5K+ go away.
Post by
Rubendesmet619
for some reason 5k seems to be the magic number.
If you are lower you will not get in ICC10.
heck a lot of toc10 won't take anyone less than this.
But I think a lot of this is not that a 4910 gs person can't do well.
but for some reason 5k is magic and it means you are a good player etc.....
yea right I have tanked toc10 with my lowbie 4880GS bear but its not 5K+ go away.
ToC10 was made for Ilv226 for crying out loud.
I received a comment for saying this on thottbot telling me it was very very hard to do it with that bad gear a fiew weeks ago, as you can imagine I had a good laugh at that.
Post by
skribs
ToC 10 was designed for ilvl 219, not 226. ToC10 is the supposed progression from U10 (the fact that 10-man only guilds do not have access to 25-man runs while 25-man guilds have access to the 10s being the reason why).
Arcolite, I agree with you. I've got a warlock who's in 1519 rating on wow-heroes (just hit 80 this weekend) which is basically the yellow bar in naxx/sarth 10 and everything from maly 10/naxx/sarth 25 up is red (no green bar) who has pulled 3.9k on some 5-man bosses. 3.9k in a 5-man is much more than what's needed in Naxx 25 and should be decent in Ulduar or ToC normal modes. Yet even the Blizzard UI wont let me queue for H ToC 5 because I'm "not geared."
Eifie, I've got a few things I disagree with from your post...
1) Currently, high geared players need emblems from heroics, so "you dont need loot" isn't a good arguement. Heroics also drop more blues than raids (needed for dream shards for certain enchants) and you get a fair amount of enchanting mats from them, and even if heroics just dropped Emblem of Heroism you're looking at gems. ICC 25H guilds will need enchants and gems, so they will still find use from those drops even if you dont increase the loot.
2) Take out the geared players, and heroics become much more difficult. Remember doing HoL in 3.0.8, where 80% of the groups would wipe on Loken because DPS would die from the nova and then the healer would go OOM? This was when the top raiders still needed heroics like mad to complete their ilvl 200-213 sets. If you take those raiders out and you're left with people in greens and blues who have no idea what they're doing, then gearing up will be harder. I don't like run throughs, but I prefer to overgear the run that have people in appropriate gear but with no clue.
Post by
Rubendesmet619
Ilv219 yep.
Dicussion on thottbot was about ToC25 so switched it around :p.
Post by
Arcolite
I'm not making this up, but there was someone on Bladefist-EU just now who was just asking for...
"LFM The Eye to farm the Pheonix Mount. Must have 4.5k+ GS."
Really? 4.5k GS for a Burning Crusade raid? Honestly, where do these cretins come from?
Post by
skribs
Reminds me of:
LFM Sarth 25 3D Zerg, must be 4k+ DPS. Must have achievement and be willing to get on vent. Need healers only.
Post by
Avallen
I'm not making this up, but there was someone on Bladefist-EU just now who was just asking for...
"LFM The Eye to farm the Pheonix Mount. Must have 4.5k+ GS."
Really? 4.5k GS for a Burning Crusade raid? Honestly, where do these cretins come from?
I get where he's coming from. Kael is a mechanic fight, and can be difficult even if you absurdly overgear it. Putting even a middle range GS cap is a decent way of weeding out people that will cause wipes.
Post by
Arcolite
I'm not making this up, but there was someone on Bladefist-EU just now who was just asking for...
"LFM The Eye to farm the Pheonix Mount. Must have 4.5k+ GS."
Really? 4.5k GS for a Burning Crusade raid? Honestly, where do these cretins come from?
I get where he's coming from. Kael is a mechanic fight, and can be difficult even if you absurdly overgear it. Putting even a middle range GS cap is a decent way of weeding out people that will cause wipes.
I agree, but as we all know, good gear doesn't equal brains. While you _might_ get a wipe free run with high geared people, it's not a guarantee by any means.
Anyone can get 4.5k GS these days. That's why GS is meaningless to me, you can get a high GS without stepping into a single raid. I geared my Shaman alt to 4900 GS with just Heroics. There is nothing stopping a brainless scrub from doing the same and then getting into that The Eye raid because of his GS.
It doesn't actually mean anything. Gearscore is simply the new "link epic plz", I've got 4900 on this Shaman and it puts out 5k dps avg and doesn't have Epic. Shows how meaning less that Achievement was and GS is no different.
Post by
Davidson
People complain about GS because they were denied a raid because their score was too low.
Then they bring in anecdotal evidence by saying that their friend's cousin who has a GS of 3000 does 8K dps, so GS means nothing. (not mentioned that 8K dps was in a 25man raid with all buffs and one AOE trash and it was really closer to 6K).
Post by
warcanon
Link hardmode achi from ulduar or TotGC and inspect gear. ask a question or 2, tell them to add their avg. iLvl if needed and bam. I hope I got a "skilled/good" player with me.
Nothing beats ulduar in brain. unless the person fakes(achi is not fool proof) or got boosted by wastly overgeared ppl but here the date can help :)
I conclude that GS works as long as you don't rely purly on the addon. As anything menioned before most tools can be abused, nothing is foolproof. GS won't make wonders but it can help if you need to do a quick decission but if your in a hurry to clear a raid and got a limited amount of time before you started the raid maybe you should concider joining a guild or preplan the raid for the night so you don't have to look for so many, because some raids do take time to set up, 25-man maybe? :)
I'll try live with GS around me but I try to just ignore it (I don't have any personal experience with fail ppl asking for way too high GS from me)
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Mazrigos&cn=Xyzi
(don't rate my char cuz i'm not playing wow atm. My tank gear is almost equal to my healing so quite good for TotC 25/10hc) shiet, now I went offtopic, don't execute me for it :(
I hope my point wasn't lost in the text.
I could care less for the addon but if someone wants it, it's up to them to keep it and use it if it works.
Post by
skribs
Linking achieve doesn't prove anything if it wasn't your main. My pally is the best healer in my guild, and we're 4th progressed alliance guild on my realm. However, I got Sarth 10 0-drake last night, because I didn't raid on my pally until after 3.3 hit. So "link achieve" wouldn't work but yet I'm actually really geared, raid aware, and good at healing. My pally also doesn't have any Ulduar, Naxx, or EoE achievements.
Similiarly, my warlock with a wow-heroes score of 1519 (which is basically the point where naxx/sarth 10 are supposedly in the "hard, but doable range" and eoe 10/naxx/sarth 25 are in the red "do not try this yet" range) did 3.9k DPS on Eck in Gundrak. I did not have any special buffs and used no CDs beyond Conflag and Chaos Bolt (no heroism, no flask/elixir, no speed pot, etc) and I'm still using an ilvl 175 blue weapon, but that's the DPS I put out single target. So it's not like it was a raid-buffed AoE situation or a cooldown-popping burst where the boss died before my CDs wore off. That number, 3.9k DPS, is way more than you'd need for an entry-level raid, and in a raid I'd have heroism and I'd be fully buffed (although I'd have less hit). So not all of those "person with low GS did insane numbers" are innacurate.
Post by
Arcolite
People complain about GS because they were denied a raid because their score was too low.
Then they bring in anecdotal evidence by saying that their friend's cousin who has a GS of 3000 does 8K dps, so GS means nothing. (not mentioned that 8K dps was in a 25man raid with all buffs and one AOE trash and it was really closer to 6K).
Not true. People complain about GS being enforced for raids that don't need GS. Asking for 5k GS to do Naxx10 is unreasonable.
Someone with 3k GS wouldn't/shouldn't expect to get into raids easily. It's not hard to farm heroics and get Tier9.
Personally when I raid lead I prefer to have lower dps people who stay alive and know the tactics than a group of high gear/dps and that are agro nubsthat don't move out of the ouchies.
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