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Does Arthas truely deserve redemption?
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Post by
457614
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Post by
Adamsm
To me, this means that Arthas was pretty much fooled into doing everything he did during the human campaign. The Lich King used everyone of his weaknesses against him, every bad part in him, and used him.Which meant his corruption came from within, it was already there.
It means he had some bad qualities. Are you assuming every other character in Warcraft have no bad qualities?
Of course not; but in this case, it was Arthas core self that lead to his taking up the Lich King mantle.
Post by
229054
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Post by
Adamsm
Of course not; but in this case, it was Arthas core self that lead to his taking up the Lich King mantle.
Or Frostmourne corrupted him.
As this is going to go in a circle... agree to disagree.
Post by
229054
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Post by
Adamsm
Well, you didn't give me one good reason to believe that it wasn't the mind controlling and corrupting powers of Frostmourne that made Arthas into what he became.
That's the thing... Frostmourne only counts for actions after he picks up the Blade; before that point, it's his own traits and personality that are there; his jealousy, his disbelief in the Light, his fear of commitment, his dislike of his own Father, his lying, his cheating, his murdering his own warriors.
All Frostmourne did was drag all those dark traits out to the forefront of his mind; same as they would have done no matter who picked up the Blade: Had Varian done it, his hatred of the orcs and his desire for revenge on the Horde and the Defias would have become greater then it is. Had Doomhammer drawn the Blade, he would have been filled with the overwhelming hatred he feels for the Traitors of his own race. If Thrall had ended up with the Blade, his old wounds from Blackmoore would have rose to the fore and probably turned him on the Humans.
It's a corrupting Blade yes... but it corrupts what's already there, making it stronger and dragging it to the fore. It's not as if all these thoughts and feelings within Arthas came solely from the Blade after all, they had a basis already inside of our 'favorite' paladin.
Post by
229054
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Post by
Adamsm
His personality is one thing, but he
having
to murder the mercenaries and kill the people of Stratholme were decisions taken in despairing moments of stress that were orchestrated by the Legion and the Lich King with the intent to turn him into a champion of undeath.
We can't judge these decisions because, if we go from Arthas' PoV, we can't make better ones ourselves.
It's a corrupting Blade yes... but it corrupts what's already there, making it stronger and dragging it to the fore. It's not as if all these thoughts and feelings within Arthas came solely from the Blade after all, they had a basis already inside of our 'favorite' paladin.
The Book says this?
He didn't have to murder the Mercenaries... he Murdered them because they could have revealed to his troops that he burnt the ships to keep them trapped in Northrend to force them to keep fighting Mal'ganis and the Scourge; that is the action of a coward and one who wanted complete and utter control over his people.
And it's not just the Book, it also says that about him in WC3 just not in as much detail.
Post by
306612
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Post by
229054
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Post by
Adamsm
And killing his father/people/moar bad things he did can also be credited to the mind control and the corruption powers of the blade, he still resisted and saved us all in the end - showing that Arthas Menethil didn't want those things done, just couldn't be much more than a vain whisper on either his own or the third being known as Lich King Arthas' mind.But that's the thing Delt... he got his greatest wish; he could finally be king of Lordaeron and prove to his father he was the right choice all along; the fact that he killed him was merely Frostmourne fulfilling a dream for it's bearer. As for the end thing.. meh, it's still bull$%^& as the Lich King and the Scourge wanted us all wiped out anyways.
I also must say that I'm biased, I believe that as long as it has a soul it can be redeemed in the afterlife =p.That's fine; but somethings aren't meant to be redeemed; Hitler had a soul, but I bet he's burning in whatever version of Hell he believed in.
Post by
229054
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Post by
Adamsm
We're starting to repeat ourselves, give it a rest?
Fun debate.
Very heh; and no flames... /sigh, if only we can get more like this eh Delt?
Post by
Skreeran
The boy extended his arms, as if he were a living, breathing child asking to be picked up and held by a loving father. “It doesn’t have to be too late,” he said quietly.
“No,” Arthas said quietly, staring raptly at the boy. “It doesn’t.”
He touched the curve of the coy’s cheek, slipped a hand beneath the small chin and tilted the shining face. He smiled into his own eyes.
“But it is.”
It's too late. Arthas said it himself.
Also, think of it like Gollum from Lord of the Rings. Yes, the ring corrupted him. He wasn't evil before he found it.
Does that absolve him for killing his cousin? No it doesn't. And Arthas did things even more terrible.
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229054
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Post by
451455
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Post by
Skreeran
Too late for what?Too late to turn back.
You understand, now. Despite all, Arthas, you have not abandoned me.” Tears of hope stood in those eyes and his voice, though stronger now than it had been, quavered with emotion. “There must be a reason. Arthas Menethil . . . Much harm have you done, but there is goodness in you yet. If there was none . . . I would not exist, not even in your dreams.”Too late for the goodness in him.
Post by
229054
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Post by
451455
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Post by
Skreeran
So the evil side of Arthas said that it was too late? Wouldn't he be denying empiric proof that he's wrong?He killed the good side of him. He admitted himself that he was consciously choosing to cross the point of no return.
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