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Hybrid Spec - Would it work? (PVE demo/destro fire)
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Post by
518224
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
i'd very much like to link to an updated sticky. you could keep chipping away at the forum you so clearly hold nothing but disdain for or you could contribute and update the post you have a problem with and request the users of the forum call for it to be stickied.
Post by
518224
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
if you have a request for an update to the FAQ then the best thing would probably be to make a post in that thread requesting the additional information. it might be nice if you made the list yourself and requested that it be added to the FAQ (if you ask really nicely i could even give you a credit for it).
you know, all this concern for the FAQ and the forum in general leads me to think you don't hate the forum as much as you said earlier. i think you like it here ^_^
Post by
518224
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
it seems you enjoy trying yes.
i seem to attract a poster like you every couple of months. i think it's my natural whit and charm. you're not the first to make a personal attack and i'm certain you won't be the last but you are just 'one of those' i'm afraid.
making posts while working or while playing (waiting in the LFG queue *rollseyes*) is one thing but an update to the FAQ takes a little more time and effort than that. you have an opportunity here to make a contribution to the forum. you seem much more willing to snipe at me than take it. that's quite sad.
Post by
518224
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
ridicule me for my inaccuracies? is that what you're doing? ^_^
well, glad you let me know.
you may feel that i act like that but i have never professed to be that. perhaps it is you feeling inferior rather than me attempting to be superior?
as for these inaccuracies... which?
boot enchants? you're really this upset about boot enchants?
i have posted a lot on this board. in that time i have said lots of things that turned out to be incorrect. i believe what is presented to me with evidence and i am always happy to be wrong about something if evidence is presented.
so, no i am not and will not always be right. i'm totally cool with that.
so, to the point! if i've said something that is incorrect then let's talk. so far you're just whining because i didn't support your position about feet.
Post by
413955
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Post by
518224
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
356172
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MegaVolt
DPS while moving is not zero, I conceeded that fact in the very same post, however every other assumption was on the opposite side of the argument (DPS being assumed low, movement time assumed low) which I believe will balance out the first assumption. You could easily redo the calculation with 4k DPS while moving, 8k while stationary and 6s movement per minute and get an even bigger benefit to Tuskarr's. Thus is the nature of assumptions. Claiming that my math is in fact WRONG based only on attacking an assumption I admitted myself is just bizarre, the math is correct.
And let's not forget, we're arguing about Runspeed from a purely DPS standpoint when it provides both a quality of life bonus as well as an added margin of safety in avoiding the things that will kill you.
I commented on the quality of life bonus. I like the convenience of running faster, that's why I use movement speed enchants on all my characters that don't have talents for it. I even spec into IUP on my (unholy) DK just for the 15% movement boost despite knowing that it costs me around 1.5% of my dps and despite knowing that I will most probably not gain that amount by moving faster. It's just convenience. But you can't measure convenience, that's why we have to calculate the dps difference. If the dps difference is known everyone can decide for himself whether that sacrifice is worth it for him or not.
Please read my post again. I did not just attack your assumption of 0 damage while moving. I don't agree with your whole oversimplified approach to the problem.
First of all you must not assume constant for the damage loss per time moved. You can always LT. You will most probably have to LT a lot more than only to keep the buff up. You will most likely never be at full mana (unless you just had to move for an eternity - but then you should have used teleport instead) and thus LTing while moving will always save you a LT later simply by giving you the necessary mana now. I think the assumtion that the first 5% of movement do cost almost no dps at all (since all they do is make you LT at different times in the fight but not increase the overall amount of LTs in any way) is a very good one.
After that the dps while moving highly depends on the encounter. Do you have in predictable short intervals? Do you have to move long distances? Can you maybe just teleport smartly and avoid most of the movement that way? Is the duration of the movement given by how fast you can get from A to B (faster movement good) or is it instead governed by how long the boss is using an ability (faster movement worthless)?
Your "math" did not take anything of this into account. What you posted was a toy model at best and in no way even remotely suited to draw any kind of real world (of warcraft) conclusions from.
Here is what you have to do to get a decent estimate (and it will still be just an estimate and probably wildly inaccurate):
Find a way to check your average movement time on a boss fight. Maybe average over the whole of ICC, should be good enough. While doing this make sure you place your teleport as smart as possible and actively try to minimize movement time with it.
Analyze the kind of movement you had to do: Did you have to get from A to B fast or did you have to move during a boss ability (like randomly running around during ooze explosions). Subtract the boss ability dominated movement from the average movement time.
Do dps on a target dummy, stationary.
Do dps on a target dummy, moving around as much as you can, just keeping the most essential effects and of course your pet active (meaning no non-instant filler spells, no Shadow Bolts or Soul Drain, just use your instant SBs when they proc).
Look at the percentage difference between the two. Assume that for damage while moving for lots of movement.
Plot some kind of curve that starts close to 0, stays there until around 5% movement, then rises (sharply if you want to, that bit basically has to be guessed) to the value you just calculated for damage while moving.
Using this calculate the dps increase from moving 8% faster depending on the total movement required in the fight. Show us this graph.
Calculate the dps increase from Icewalker.
Calculate the break point even for dps gain from being faster depending on amount of movement in an encounter and dps gain from Icewalker and show it to us.
Compare this break point even you just calculated to the average movement time you observed on yourself in ICC.
That would be a proper analysis of the whole problem. That would deserve to be called "doing the math". And it will take a hell of a lot of time to do.
You were nowhere close to it.
Post by
asakawa
lol. is this it? this is what you've been so grouchy about all day?
you are funny.
but we're so far off-topic now that i may as well humour you.
-i'll look again at the gems section. it seems clarity is needed
however
the first line of the gem section is
"The most important thing to understand before gemming your gear is that the socket colours allow you to unlock the socket bonus but they do not have to be adhered to."
again, though, if you have any suggestions on content then you can post in that thread.
-i asked repeatedly for maths on the professions bonuses. if you can provide some concrete numbers then i'd be happy to go back to it.
-the FAQ is aimed to give good general advice applicable to all. as such the "my DPS sucks" section has a clear aim which you appear to be misunderstanding.
-black magic was understood to provide 62.5 haste which was inferior to 63 SP for all specs at the time. if any of that info has changed since i made that statement then it may not be true any longer but it was true at the time.
-i never said "never better" regarding LT and DP. i'm not in the business of predicting the future. also, if you're talking about the thread i think you are, then i was expressing my opinion on a debatable topic. DP is not currently a DPS increase for most players and i'm not overly fond of it for practical rather than DPS reasons. i'm not allowed an opinion?
now this is getting tiresome and it's getting late here. if you have any issues with the FAQ then i suggest you post in that thread.
if you have any issues with anything i say in any other thread then i suggest you post in that thread.
Post by
518224
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
518224
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
lol. i really think it's fantastic that one of the things that has annoyed you most is that fact that i said "max your professions" instead of "level your professions to a point where they provide the best available buff" (not as snappy is it? >.<) but you might want to rethink your approach to this and other forums.
you dug yourself a big hole there and filled it with "max your professions"?
!
!
lol
the CSD/ESD thing is the only fair point and i will clarify that soon. i did say that it was a "possible exception" but that's pretty fluffy language for an FAQ and i've seen some numbers since i wrote that passage that suggested you'd need 18+ magic users to make ESD even an arguable benefit.
Post by
518224
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
lol
one thing i've definitely failed on today is forum101:
"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference"
.
good night menestheus
edit: are you advertising a paid service via the forum?
Post by
518224
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MegaVolt
If you feel that you have a better way to show the DPS value of Tuskarr's then go right ahead and do it. Personally I don't feel like wasting a massive amount of time proving something I already know to be true. And I bet you don't either.
How can you know it to be true without having done the proper calculation?
Honestly I don't see any reason why either enchant should come out clearly on top. I've cleared ICC often enough so that I think I can take a rough estimate of the parameters that would be involved in the calculation and my best guess is that it will be a very, very close call and each enchant will probably be superior on different encounters with most encounters actually favoring Icewalker (due to not moving that much with proper teleport usage).
I'd use Tuskarr's for convenience anyway as I stated above.
Still this is just a guess and I can not say to know it to be true in any way. The fact that you claim exactly this proves that you aren't really interested in the truth but only in proving that you were right. Which is kind of common but still sad.
By the way I have no intention to calculate it myself, I just pointed out how to properly do since I have to say I found it quite offensive that you claimed to "scare askawa away with math and formulas" when all you did was post a ridiculous toy model that a 14 year old could have "calculated" and that is about as similar to proper math as a water pistol to a rocket launcher.
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