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PTR
10.2.5
PTR
10.2.6
Ignorance of Discipline mechanics
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Post by
MegaVolt
And that is why we are done here.
You should go into politics. I am not trying to "string anything together". The whole time I was referring to your post. Here it is again since you seem to have forgotten it (again):
Oh, and Renew is completely balls for Discipline and should
NEVER
be used; the only exception to that being renewing a warlock out of combat so that he can life tap. Okay? Okay.
Now tell me: Do you stand by this statement? Or do you take it back?
All I was saying is that there are situations in which casting Renew as disc Priest is a very smart thing to do. And that's simply true. I listed several examples (lol at scientific method, that one was really funny - FYI: If someone makes a general statement and claims that is
always
applies it is enough to find a single example of it not applying to prove him wrong). Stop trying to weasel your way out of it. It's really quite sad that you can't even admit that simple mistake.
You got carried away a bit, you don't think much of Renew and you exaggerated a bit when you said to
never
ever use it. No big deal, it happens, it's only human. But not being able to admit that is just pathetic. Grow up.
Oh and since no amount of logic and perfectly correct math was able to convince anyone here last time (you remember, I got flamed for posting correct math but at least raid logs managed to shut the trolls up and proved me right with the Renew for holy Priests issue) here are a few more raid logs:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rdxizffqeyumodgh/details/1/?s=13057&e=13619
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/qqhw0hdbjmtageel/details/9/?s=2426&e=2919
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/7kl1tq1c8yq3jru3/details/42/?s=8904&e=9422
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/l0gowu3q7dkvha55/details/5/?s=1107&e=1554
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/ygiwfgbrocte74qz/details/88/?s=13145&e=13611
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-qs5jkclvo2foyq7v/details/0/?s=1598&e=2121
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/atjkoclch1wqgt11/details/55/?s=22275&e=22823
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/oyyufjclrsi0o7xe/details/28/?s=3801&e=4268
All taken from the two currently released encounters that can be considered difficult, Anub 25H and Putricide 25N. All successful kills with disc Priests using Renew. Now since you claim that a disc Priest should
NEVER
do that I guess all those people that are successfully downing the hardest bosses in the game are doing it horribly wrong? And you are the one who knows better? Seriously?
Just to make this clear: I am not saying that Renew is a great main healing tool for disc. It is certainly not. It is a valid spell for holy to use frequently and it is a very situational spell for disc. But as the "situational" spell suggests there are situations in which a Renew cast is a good choice for a disc Priest. Claiming that a disc Priest should never use it (basically meaning that he shouldn't even have it on his bar) is just wrong.
Post by
OscarDivine
I don't use renew except for healing life tapping warlocks... Why would I? I can PWS, or even flash heal for almost the same time-frame.
You comment as if you had a druid who was your main and that your understanding of priests was somehow colored by this perception. oh wait... your main IS a druid and your perception of priest healing IS colored by your experiences as a druid.
Post by
91278
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
117913
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Paolo
Renew is just a good way of crossing your fingers.Best description of Renew ever.
Move to Tooltip please.
Post by
karlusdavius
As for tank healing (which should be your main role as disc) having a Renew active on the tank at all times imo is superior to just spamming FH on him.
Wait a second. I thought we were on about tank healing here. Yet you post logs of discipline priests who have PW:S as there top heal, meaning they are most probably raid bubbling.
You, again, have managed to switch the conversation to something completely different. For tank healing, renew really is sub-optimal unless your in a heroic. Flash Heal will always beat out renew when MT healing.
I don't know about your raids but I often have seen the tank drop to very low health. And often enough he is barely picked up and lives through it. 500 HPS can make the difference there.
So can mitigation from Divine Aegis. Much better.
If your
raid bubbling
and on the move, renew is ok. However, as soon as I'm stationary, ill start throwing flash heals out ASAP. Renew is the last spell ont he list to cast. If you can't cast anything else, then Renew is the one to go to. DA is just too good a proc from flash heal to ignore. That why renew is not better then flash heal...again.
If your tank healing, don't bother to refresh or use. If content is on farm, great! use it if you like. For progression raid's, MT discipline healers won't use Renew. Simple as that.
Post by
MegaVolt
Wait a second. I thought we were on about tank healing here. Yet you post logs of discipline priests who have PW:S as there top heal, meaning they are most probably raid bubbling.
If your
raid bubbling
and on the move, renew is ok.
Again, since people seem to have a real problem with reading comprehension here:
Sinespe said that a disc Priest should
NEVER
cast Renew. This "
NEVER
" is absolute. It covers
all
healing. It does not matter if we are tanking about raid healing or tank healing. His claim is absolute and if we find a single occasion in which Renew is a valid cast for a disc Priest he is proven wrong.
You yourself provided such a situation: Raid bubbling on the move. As far as I know that's the only reason for a disc Priest who is helping out on the raid to ever use Renew and even then only after he ran out of targets to cast the shield on. It shouldn't happen often - but it does happen occasionally.
Paolo and I mentioned another situation like that: Keeping Renew on the tank during a lull phase so that you can afford the gcd. By the way Sinepse: You claimed that Priests don't have a Swiftmend to get the tanks hp up after that gcd loss for Renew. Did you forget about
Penance
?
Sinespes claim that using Renew is always the inferior strategy is just ridiculous. As Paolo said: It has been covered here already a year ago. If you have a gcd to spare casting a Renew on the tank is good. You are also not "losing" any DA procs over this. After all you will cast that FH right afterwards and we are talking about a lull phase after all.
Again, to make it perfectly simple so you (Sinespe) can maybe understand it: Cast Renew when there is no damage happening. Don't refresh it when the tank is taking heavy hits. Refresh it only when there is nothing else to do right now (tank is dodging like 10 times in a row, sitting at full health and has plenty of shields and procs on him or the boss is casting that spell of doom with a long cast time) or when you are on the move.
That's another thing I haven't mentioned yet: When tank healing you will have to move often enough, too. When raid bubbeling you will most probably have plenty of people to cast shields on so that Renew for a disc Priest is the inferior choice. When tank healing on the move however there really isn't anything else you can do except casting Renew. Yet another example of a useful application.
All I'm saying here is that Renew gets underestimated. Saying that it should
NEVER
be used is just silly, why can't we just agree on that?
The funny thing is that most people here (e.g. Paolo, karlus) have listed occasions in which Renew casts for a disc Priest are perfectly valid and yet, despite obviously agreeing with me since that's exactly what I have been saying the last 2 pages, they still try to somehow argue against me.
Why?
The fact is: Renew is a very situational spell and a disc Priest should not cast it all the time but when used correctly it is a valuable addition to his healing. This is so trivial and so obivous that I'm really amazed about the amount of hate I'm getting here for pointing it out.
Post by
OscarDivine
Now you're just being legalistic. Quit it.
Post by
333843
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
dhampir1989
actualy at low levels and with good spell power renew is a fairly good spell to use maby not for a tank but say a gnome mage in helfire ramparts pulls a few mobs and the tank dosn't have enough time to pull them off the fastest protection is shield and you can put a renew on him so you can continue healing the tank without woring about the lil gnome mage
1. Low levels =/= healing raids. Not even nearly.
2. Flash Heal is still better.
Post by
Paolo
You are vastly underestimating Renew. It is an awesome spell. If that doesn't explain why people take issue with your longwinded "arguments," I can't help you. There's been so much already said to debunk this assertion that I certainly don't need to say another word about it. In the meantime you slip & slide and make arguments in a vacuum to secondary points. I'd put you on ignore if Wowhead had such a feature.
You are actually a
nut
. I wish I could soften that one.
Post by
91278
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ZoraLink
Sadly, I agree with Megavolt in this case. Renew can be used. Fairly often.
Don't hurt me.
Post by
319099
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
OscarDivine
It's time to let it go guys. Again. If he wants to go use renew when he should be using other spells let him. So long as he isn't in your raid, just look the other way.
This is, by no means me defending MegaVolt. I am simply advocating that we let his ignorance be his bliss.
Post by
481692
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
sargasso
In summary someone said "never" use renew. Megavolt seems to be an argumentative type who wants to win some form of debate so picked up on the "never" and tried to put forward a scenario where it might be useful. I would have to say he got his victory.
Someone else said they saw tanks dropping to 500hp and barely surviving after taking lots of damage. If you are a healer in a raid you should have all felt your little sphincters tightening involuntarily as you see the tanks health bar suddenly become barely perceptible on your choice of healing addon. Statistically there will be cases where the last hit takes the tank to -1, -2, etc health points. Had they had a renew cast on them that final hit would still leave them alive. If you have nothing else to do and can afford the mana then why not cast renew on the tank (the time it takes to go from full health to nothing is certainly potentially within the time frame of renew still ticking).
I am not advocating skipping all the other necessary spells required keeping the tank alive, but, logically, the more healing you provide the tank, the more likely they are to stay alive. Given the numerous types and timings of incoming damage and all possible rotations that can be utilised to keep the tank alive you cannot state “never” as an absolute with regard to never casting renew.
Post by
297451
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
dhampir1989
I myself play a lower level disc priest levelling purely through dungeons, and I know someone mentioned earlier in this thread that lower lvl healing /= raid healing, but for the sake of the argument let's say that
before
your tank runs into those heavy-hitting evil mobs in front of you, you cast PW:S and a renew before battle commensces.
Is that really such a bad use of the spell? You haven't wasted a GCD "in combat", and the renew will be ticking once shield is down, when tank starts taking those heavy hits you know you're going to have to Flash Heal spam through. What am I missing here? In my world this is a win-win situation since a renew tick is better than no renew tick healing-wise.
What you are missing is
this
.
PoM is much more efficient, effective, and it can crit too (unlike Renew)
Thats not to say at low levels Renew isnt useful, but in a level 80 environment, save the GCD and mana for something else.
Post by
Paolo
Well, that depends on what level Siday is at. PoM doesn't appear on the map until 68.
Most of the debate you saw above was for progression raiding content. What you do in 5-mans (especially while leveling) is often quite different, so (Siday) take everything you read here with a grain of salt. Learn for yourself while you instance! Try using Renew, try doing an instance without ever using it... play around, get a feel for how the whole thing fits together. Learning by doing is better than learning by reading. They might lead to the same place, but you'll "own" your toon more thoroughly if you make your own mistakes and find your own way.
Damn, waxing philosophical again.
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