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To gearing pallies: What is best *really*? (On crit vs Int)
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Post by
Squishalot
I'd support a "crit vs int, here's why" sticky.
Seconded. Go for your life, Rouen! Just remember to include the point-for-point math, as well as the fully geared example.
Edit: It's probably worth noting that you're not going to get 100% uptime on Divine Plea though, especially in encounters that require you to heal heavily.
Post by
pezz
I feel terrible for Rouen now. Deep down I'm sure he hopes pulle will admit he's right, even though it's a tiny hope battered almost to extinction by common sense, but one badly typed sentence will end those hopes.
All that work for nothing...
Also, I can copy/paste Rouen's two posts there into my holy paladin thread. It'll have to go on the end of the current discussion with a little note in the stats section, but that would do. I don't know if it needs an entire stickied thread.
Since I feel like that's the easiest thing to do I'll do it now. If Rouen or svirve want it done differently I'll happily remove them from my thread and change the the note to reflect a seperate thread.
Edit: Done, with Rouen's name all over the place so I'm not stealing anything. Again, if there are strong feelings that it should be a seperate sticky I'll just delete those posts. I just went ahead and did this because I felt it was a simple and organized solution.
Post by
Rouen
I feel terrible for Rouen now. Deep down I'm sure he hopes pulle will admit he's right, even though it's a tiny hope battered almost to extinction by common sense, but one badly typed sentence will end those hopes.
All that work for nothing...
Quite the contrary my fuzzy feral bear. I got paid to write this up, so the clear winners are myself and anyone who wants to learn more about holy paladins.
Since I feel like that's the easiest thing to do I'll do it now. If Rouen or svirve want it done differently I'll happily remove them from my thread and change the the note to reflect a seperate thread.
I wouldn't mind normally (flattered actually), but there are still quite of few holy paladins who believe crit is better then int. I'm not trying to toot my own horn, but making it it's own sticky would make the information more visible. If any one asks the question again, we can just say "Go look at the damn stickies" and they can't complain they don't want to dig through more then one whole forum page to find it. In the end, it's up to the moderators what they want to do with it.
I'll recraft the posts into something more professional and include more math for extra examples, such as the working math for the 51/0/20 spec or alternately the 51/2/18 spec (with two points into Divinity instead of Pursuit of Justice).
Edit: Grammar
Post by
pezz
True, if I had room to put it all right at the front page it might be different but as is it's buried on page ten. I'll change the link in the stats section to the new thread once it's up.
And I much prefer 15% run speed to 2% healing but that's not really relevant. ^^
Post by
Rouen
And I much prefer 15% run speed to 2% healing but that's not really relevant. ^^
Well said. I'm guilty of the occasional tail swipe and closing that distance back to my tank quickly is a godsend. I'm also a fan of healing myself when this happens and I'm out of my 40 yard healing range since Beacon of Light has a 60 range :-D
Post by
Nazeka
Way to go Rouen, extremely nice write-up :)
Post by
biogoo
I don't want to be rude but this calculation is totaly wrong since:
1. Crit Paladin has more % in Crit
2. Intellect Paladin gets more Mana back cause he uses more mana since he can't realy so much on the talent which gives back 30% base mana on Crit. Intellect stacking was made for noobs.
3. My paladin has 20-22k mana self buffed and i got no problem healing Tocg 10 just waiting for guild to put together a run for 25 HC version.
4. I have never been into a 8 min long boss, ofc i haven't been into ICC yet.
I could probaly say alot more stuff, but if you wanna prove to me you are not troll like 90% of people on this forum is then communicate with me and we can make a cacluation. :)
From this post its pretty clear to me that you havent seen anything more than Gormok and his snobolds in ToGC yet.
Or you went there with 3 healers. Pardon me, I mean two healers and you.
Post by
slasher0161
And if you wanna see im correct, just so simple math everybody learns in school.
Uh huh. So if this math is so simple, why can't you post it, like we've asked over and over again?
Of course, if your math is as good as your English...
*Assorted trash*
Now what he was really trying to say is that
2 = 1
so pulle your insane maths abilities should be able to find the flaws in that proof should they not... off you go, not a moment to waste or we shall divide your IQ by 0 (In your case is possible)
So pulle seeing as you missed it before please o great one use your divine math skills to prove this wrong.
Post by
Squishalot
2. Intellect Paladin gets more Mana back cause he uses more mana since he can't realy so much on the talent which gives back 30% base mana on Crit. Intellect stacking was made for noobs.
Strength stacking was made for noob Ret paladins too. It doesn't make it any less than ideal once you're melee hit capped.
I could probaly say alot more stuff, but if you wanna prove to me you are not troll like 90% of people on this forum is then communicate with me and we can make a cacluation. :)
Come on, do the calculations online, we're waiting :)
Post by
svirve
1. Crit Paladin has more % in Crit
And less mana, making him even more worthless
2. Intellect Paladin gets more Mana back cause he uses more mana since he can't realy so much on the talent which gives back 30% base mana on Crit. Intellect stacking was made for noobs.
So thanks, you basically said you are wrong and we are right, since even if paladin healers use more mana we also get more mana back thus we're more effective overall.
3. My paladin has 20-22k mana self buffed and i got no problem healing Tocg 10 just waiting for guild to put together a run for 25 HC version.
It's not that hard if you're three healing it.
4. I have never been into a 8 min long boss, ofc i haven't been into ICC yet.
Apperantly not ulduar either.
I could probaly say alot more stuff, but if you wanna prove to me you are not troll like 90% of people on this forum is then communicate with me and we can make a cacluation. :)
So once again you're saying you're wrong and we're right? Since you dont have this mysterious calculation you've speaken so highly of these last 3-4 pages since you suddenly appeared.
It's kinda bad when it comes to the point were we stop saying that you're wrong and you're just saying it yourself.
Post by
pezz
What do you mean 'suddenly appeared,' svirve? He made this thread. I don't know why he needs an alter ego to conspicuously not do any math, but still, he seems to think he does.
Post by
svirve
What do you mean 'suddenly appeared,' svirve? He made this thread. I don't know why he needs an alter ego to conspicuously not do any math, but still, he seems to think he does.
I kinda like how insane he is, if we feed that by "confirming" that pulle and halaryth are different people, maybe he will start to believe it AFK as well.
This will probably lead to him being put in an insane asylum which will inevitably lead to him not posting here.
Which would stop this madness.
Post by
pezz
Except I'll feel kind of guilty if at one point he decides to log off of one account in an attempt to log in to the other one outside of the internet. That just sounds messy.
Post by
svirve
Thats cause Ret Paladin is a Simple class.
Same simple class as holy paladins.
int
int
int
int
int
int
int
int
int
int
int
int
Post by
slasher0161
2. Intellect Paladin gets more Mana back cause he uses more mana since he can't realy so much on the talent which gives back 30% base mana on Crit. Intellect stacking was made for noobs.
Strength stacking was made for noob Ret paladins too. It doesn't make it any less than ideal once you're melee hit capped.
I could probaly say alot more stuff, but if you wanna prove to me you are not troll like 90% of people on this forum is then communicate with me and we can make a cacluation. :)
Come on, do the calculations online, we're waiting :)
I will give the people here some more time, on sunday i will do them.
Thats cause
ret
Holy
Paladin is a Simple
class
spec
.
Hmm lets see what stats a
Ret
Holy
Paladin needs:
Int - Also required for correct forum posts, but more on that later
Int - Because we have talents that increase sh it off it and it directly... maybe they want us to have a chunk of it
Crit
INT
- Because if you imagine crit to be a donut, int is a f_cking box of iced donuts.
O also
INT
Fix'd
Post by
pezz
I will give the people here some more time, on
S
unday
I
will do them.
That
'
s
be
cause Ret Paladin is a
s
imple class.
Hmm
,
let
'
s see what stats a Ret Paladin needs:
Hit - Almost every class gets
this
easily t
h
rough gear and doesn't even need to socket it.
Expertise - They
have a
Glyph which gives you 10 Expertise while using Seal of Vengeance and also some gear gives Expertise
.
I
have heard the 2 Caps are 26 for
d
odge and 56 for
p
arry.
d
odge is easily reached but
p
arry
is
not, but
since
it is not necessary to reach
the e
xpertise cap on
p
arry since you can stand behind the boss.*
Crit - A very good stat but almost no combinations expect the +50% dmg if you do crit
,
and
also
there is a
_
lot of Crit around in raid buffs.
Strength - Increases your AP which increase MINI
M
UM and MAXI
M
UM dmg with a flat %! Also it increases Spell power trough talent
s
which also increases your heals with a MINI
M
UM and MAXI
M
UM heal
*
same goes for the
damage
,
and I
have heard Retri Paladins
damage
is 60% Physical and 40% Spell.
*None of those words are proper nouns. You shouldn't be capitalizing them. I left Ret paladin alone because that's debatable as far as I'm concerned.
*
Increases your ret paladin's heals? El oh el?
No
,
that
'
s what the players who
are
not skilled have turned it into.
Edit: And two more posts since I finished this! What luck!
1. No since he won't go oom
as
fast and he
also
learns how to control h
i
s mana and when to heal or not.
2. That was not what
I
meant
.
i misstyped,
The thing
I
meant was that they get more mana back from stuff which gives X% mana back.
3. I have solo healed it too, no problem. I have
mostly
done
the
most raids except ICC and the raids
I
have done is with CRIT stacking and so far it has worked so it is not proven yet that it is bad.
4. I have done some ulduar bosses
, but
not all yet since once again
I
have to say it
I
was on
a
bad server so
I
could
e
n't
do any
progress
any further
. And now that
I'm
on
a
new server nobody does ulduar
any more,
they only do ICC 10, ICC 25, Togc 10, Togc 25, Totc 10, Totc 25.
I will do them on Sunday if somebody hasen't solved them.*
*To warrant the use of a pronoun here you need to have referred to the calculations earlier, preferably in the same paragraph or even the same sentence, not a couple posts back.
Nope
I'm
not the guy you think
I
am, why should
I
have 2 accounts? That
'
s just un
n
ecessary.
I couldn't agree more, which is why I don't understand what you hope to accomplish by making two accounts.
Anyway, I thought this would be more fun to do than to try to argue against his complete lack of logic, argument, and even thought.
Post by
225109
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rouen
A whole lot of trolling
*sigh* The writing is on the wall and you're so illiterate that you can't see it. Very well, I'll humor you.
I don't want to be rude but this calculation is totaly wrong since:
1. Crit Paladin has more % in Crit
You fail to demonstrate numbers. Spewing random bull**** does not win arguments here, contrary to your elementary beliefs.
2. Intellect Paladin gets more Mana back cause he uses more mana since he can't realy so much on the talent which gives back 30% base mana on Crit. Intellect stacking was made for noobs.
Explain to me how he *uses* more mana. He doesn't use anymore then you... I take that back, he does use more then you, because you go OOM so damn quickly. The numbers show the same number of casts for each spell and the intellect paladin's regen through Divine Plea and Replenishment completely outclassed the regen you get from stacking crit. In less then 20 holy lights, you will be OOM and you would need to crit four of them to be able to cast another. So you spent 5096 mana, a quarter of your mana pool, to be able to extra an extra holy light. GG, you casted four spells and already need to Divine Plea. That is fail, a critical fail
adin
.
3. My paladin has 20-22k mana self buffed and i got no problem healing Tocg 10 just waiting for guild to put together a run for 25 HC version.
You are being carried then son by a supremely good healer, or you are three healing it and still getting carried.
4. I have never been into a 8 min long boss, ofc i haven't been into ICC yet.
You've never been outside a heroic.
I could probaly say alot more stuff, but if you wanna prove to me you are not troll like 90% of people on this forum is then communicate with me and we can make a cacluation. :)
LOLOLOL
You made me laugh troll, I'll give you that. Of course you need my help to do simple math, you've proven that you've never attended school for any sort of education. Spelling, Mathematics, English,
or have even played the game at hand
. You've utterly failed here and have served only to entertain the regulars of the paladin community. Maybe you should get into comedy instead, you have a glimmer of hope there.
I request that the thread be locked, all constructiveness is now gone.
Post by
Rouen
Atm i got 44% Crit chance on Holy Light and 54% Crit chance on Holy Shock this is without buffs or raid and with Crap gear.
This is how I know your full of crap.
The crit chance for Holy Light and Holy Shock
are the same
, the only healing spell that will be different is Flash of Light because there is no talent other then
Holy Power
, and that is applied to all of them. The talent that modifies the crit chance for just Holy Shock and Holy Light is
Sancified Light
. You would have known this if you actually read my post and saw the test characters... oh wait, you can't read, I forgot.
When im in raid my Crit usuly is 70-85% Crit with crap gear.
The most amount of direct crit you will get from buffs is the 5% from a Boomkin's Aura and 3% from a shaman's totem. 5+3 must = 30% crit! (I'm sure I'm missing a buff or two, but they are small).
Please link your "crap" gear, crap gear is heroic dungeon epics (other then PoS, HoR, FoS) or lower (blues and greens) at this point.
If I'm not mistaken, there is a crit cap so 85% is impossible to achieve, the game doesn't allow it.
Post by
Rouen
My replies showed the math with proves you wrong. It was quite necessary, words are not gospel on these forums. Numbers are, which you have failed to show since the beginning.
You are the troll in these forums by antagonizing the regulars. Go ahead and report me, you will be the one banned from here.
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