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Post by
500183
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Post by
Toldu
Ok... and
why
are all other tanks better than druids in ICC?
Post by
Aadramelekh
I want a serious discussion here!
Is there actualy any good reason not to kick out all the Druid tanks from there tank role in ICC? Since all other tanks will do so much better there.
You are going out of your way with this joke, kid. I already told you to gather your toys and go back to your room. It's bed time and you have to take your pills too.
Please don't make me yell at you again :(
/pat
Post by
Mike
I want a serious discussion here!
Is there actualy any good reason not to kick out all the Druid tanks from there tank role in ICC? Since all other tanks will do so much better there.
only good reason to kick out a druid is if their gear is bad, bad spec, bad skill. other than that, no reason to kick a druid out of icc.
Post by
500183
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Post by
karlusdavius
your an idiot that has no clue about anything...good riddence
Post by
241152
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Post by
368348
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Post by
241152
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Post by
MegaVolt
First I thought this is just a stupid troll post but his latest contribution here actually looks like a lot of work. I'm beginning to think he might actually be serious about it and just ... misguided and not very informed about how tanks actually work.
Comparing those specs as you are doing now is completely pointless. And your DK spec is wrong, spell deflection is a really crappy talent that no DK wants to take. Additionally 47% parry is the hard cap for DKs, you can only reach that with an infinite amount of parry rating (which is simply impossible). No DK will have 35% or even 40%, not even remotely in BiS ICC gear.
Not counting dodge is also silly. Dodge is only reduced by 20%. Look at it this way: A DK has 40% dodge and 20% parry. A Druid has 60% dodge. With the dodge debuff a DK ends up with 20% dodge and 20% parry, overall 40% avoidance. And the Druid has 40% dodge left still, also 40% overall avoidance.
The dodge debuff hits all tanks exactly equally hard, it is in absolutely no way a bigger disadvantage for Druids than for other tanking classes.
Back to your 3 points:
1. You said that Druids hold aggro well. This is correct.
3. Dealing damage ... well I wouldn't really call that a tank priority. But as far as I know Druid tanks tend to be the ones with the highest dps of all tanks. They also bring nice raid buffs (combat rez if there is a lull phase in which the tank can switch out of bear form, Innervate in the same situation, the LotP self heal for melee).
2. Taking little damage. At least equally important to taking little damage is to survive a damage spike. Druids have the highest amount of
armor
(a stat which you have completely ignored so far and which is essential for tanking) of all classes and they also tend to have the biggest health pool. Druids have great damage reduction, not only from dodge (which still works great in ICC, having 40% dodge left after the debuff is more than enough).
Bottom line: Druid tanks are still very awesome. They work perfectly and there is absolutely no reason to prefer any other tanking class over them.
And some practical information: My guild team got the server first 10man ICC on the day the patch came out with a Druid as main tank. We also got the server second 25man ICC later (due to the fact that we did 10mans first and while we were doing that another guild beat us to the 25mans), also with a Druid as main tank. Absolutely no problems with tanking in both runs. Druids are fine.
Post by
500949
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Post by
500949
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Post by
241152
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Post by
500949
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Aratheras
Maybe you should just have finished writing your post the first time around
Post by
500949
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Post by
130626
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Post by
Tarkeel
Please, before you make more of a fool out of yourself, read up on
Diminishing returns
, and you will se why the numbers you spout about simply are not feasible. You will also see why it's incredibly stupid to drop the avoidance talents because of chill of the throne.
Post by
91278
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MegaVolt
He isn't serious. Trust me. Before this, he was on the Priest board claiming that Shadow Priests should stack crit at the expense of all other stats. Did he have any maths to back this up? Oh, sure, but it was all in his head, because he "is genius ^.^".
He is putting a lot of work into his posts which usually indicates that he is serious about it. He is still wrong of course but if he is convinced he is right, however misguided that is, he is not a troll ;) There might be a possibility to educate.
And please don't get me started on the Priest forum ... I had a few questions about healing talents there (you might remember ;)) and despite me backing them up with some (very basic but also absolutely correct) math people started calling me a troll, insulting me without any arguments whatsoever and started stalking me all over this forum. It really was pathetic ...
After the way people reacted to my posts on the Priest forum I'm really not surprised that you could not convince him that he is wrong over there. Don't get me wrong, there were a few nice people with a brain who can respond in a serious manner (you were one of the smart ones btw) but with all that flaming and trolling noise around it ... well, I just hope we can do better here.
I doubt we can show him his errors here, either - but since he is putting real effort into his post I think it is only fair to at least try.
@goregasm:
When writing a forum post you should _first_ complete it and then post it. Write it in some text editor, offline, until it is finished. Then copy and paste it once you are done. Do not post one half of an argument and then tell people to wait for the other half, there just is no point.
And no, I will not change my opinion once you posted all the other stuff. It is obvious what you are going to write. You are comparing tanking talents and cooldowns without looking at very basic tank mechanics. You wrote you want to disregard dodge - that fact alone makes your comparison totally and utterly useless because even with the dodge debuff it is still a very good tanking stat - much better than parry, especially for DKs (and obviously for Druids)!
Look at the link that Tarkeel gave you. That is the reason why it is almost impossible for a DK to get the parry you are talking about and it is also the reason why DKs want to get dodge instead: Due to their 25% str to parry talent they will already be very heavy into diminishing returns for parry, making is a very very bad stat for them to have on gear. Dodge on the other hand will not be diminished nearly as much, making it a good stat for them.
Long story short: The debuff only takes a flat 20% off dodge. That does not change the value of dodge as stat in any way! Every tank will have more than 20% dodge and a flat 20% avoidance reduction will nerf any tank in exactly the same way. It will not make dodge talents bad, it will not make stacking dodge stats bad. Just read my previous post again, I provided easy to understand theoretical examples and I
know
that Druid tanks are awesome in ICC since my guild is using one without any problems at all. The experiment has proven your theory wrong and the experiment is always right. You have to adjust your theory, you have to find the mistake you made in your theorycrafting. We pointed out where this mistake is already: Your assumption that dodge becomes worthless is wrong and you failed to take diminishing returns into account. Please use that information we gave you to correct yourself. Thanks.
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