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Intellectual Disscussion Regarding Casuals
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Post by
skumbananer
i am casual, i do some raids, farm some heroics and like to progress in 10man raids in my own pace. I wanna give an effort and get rewarded for my effort.
I really dont care if 1337 imbahcraiddk raids 2 tiers above me, raids with 15 more people than me, or clears harder versions of what im clearing. What i dont want, is free holiday-epics that outshines stuff that i feel like i accomplished something hard to get, call me a moron, but i was actually proud of how geared i managed to get my character before i replaced it all by doing content that is far easier than what i raid.
But its the end of an expansion, i really love the new fivemans, and are really eager to try out icc, holiday-gears is only a minor setback.
Post by
Squishalot
Your reward is the pride you have in progressing in the 10 man raids. Despite the welfare-epics being distributed, I'll still be proud when my deadbeat guild finally manages to clear Naxx10 :P
Post by
322464
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Post by
Rubendesmet619
I seriously don't get how people whine about somthing as stupid as gear these days.(Yes I did clear ICC10 twice(main+alt) and ICC25 on my main and al that but seriously.
I do 5.5k DPS in an instance unbuffed and up to 7.5k DPS with an enh shaman
I see another warrior doing les then 2k DPS with 2x the ToC5 heroic weapons, Ilv219-232 gear.
Bad people stay bad, I think we can agree on that, a friend of mine, skilled as hell got into our guild with no problems because he knows wtf he's doing, we gave him a ride trough ToC25(in wich he couldn pul his weight as one of the 2 tanks), he won 5 items, the same week he tanked ToGC10 insanity and won the cloak.
Gear means jack these days, focus on the player, not his gear and you'll see...nothing realy changed.
Stil equal ammount of morons and idiots compared to people who know what to do.
In TBC as a casual I HATED EVERY FORM OF EASY GEAR!
I was gearing up in Karazhan, started into TK/SSC and suddenly those freaking MGT badges came, I was so $%^&ing #$%^ed that I could just skip t5 content.
Skipping content sucks, I skipped Maggy/Gruul/t5 content and theres NOTHING fun in that.
Post by
Fiennes
Your reward is the pride you have in progressing in the 10 man raids. Despite the welfare-epics being distributed, I'll still be proud when my deadbeat guild finally manages to clear Naxx10 :P
I feel your pain.
My guild has Hogger down to 26%....
Post by
Monday
I kinda like how they are giving triumph badges in heroics now, it kinda makes the gap between heroics-ICC10 a little bit smaller, and it stops people feeling like they have to go to naxx to get upgrades while trying to find a group, which I tihnk I have found one PuG naxx group in my 80 career (about four/five months now).
And the reason people want gear is to get better gear to go to better instances. However, the reason for me going to raids is not better gear (although that is a big part) but the fun of the fight itself, I absolutely love the WotLK dungeon/raid fights, and not even just the fights, but the dungeon itself. For example, I am loving the gauntlet event in Pit of Saron, and I love the Maexxna fight in naxx.
Post by
Majai
I have been both a hardcore player and a casual player. Played since release, etc. etc.
Does no-one remember how it was when you had to be hardcore to get epics of any kind (pvp or pve) and everyone else was left in blues simply because they did not want to raid every night? I was in MC/BWL at that time and was extremely well geared. I liked being well geared and the fact people knew I was a good player. But that's the point, it wasn't really the colour purple that I liked but the fact it sent messages to people ie "I am good enough to raid". But it was a terrible game for the remainder of the players many of whom were probably just as good as me or could be given training/experience, but were regularly rogered in pvp by those of us in phat lewt.
I stayed a hardcore raider most of the time (with one break at the start of BC) up until Illidan. And then I just lost interest, for a number of reasons. The one most pertinent to this thread is that, yes, I could get rather nice gear without having to go to raids. And why is that important? Because raids were, on the most part, fairly dreadful. Not the boss encounters, those were exciting and challenging. Not even clearing the trash, which was also challenging as a healer. The kind of players who raid and the kind of people who lead raids are so often annoying, egotistical and unpleasant.
Simply put, Game should Fun. Raids had lots of fun elements in them, like beating very difficult bosses, and playing with people I liked, but they also had a lot of bad things like being ordered around by a jerk with personal problems and having to schedule your life around a game timetable. A heroic 5-man fight can be made to be just as hard for the individual player as a heroic 25-man fight or even a 40-man fight. I mean come on, there were few raid fights I really sweated about healing, mostly end bosses (Nefarian, C'thun, Illidan) and those were usually because of *range* issues not skill issues. Or Patchwerk which was a "hard fight" - the only thing that was HARD was finding a way to keep your mana up the whole fight. You were SPAMMING. That same mechanic can be in a heroic 5-man fight. So why should the healer get worse gear in a 5-man than a 25-man if the fight was just as hard for him, individually?
Simply put, raiders are upset that their gear no longer sends the message "I am good" because there's a huge sea of purple now that you get lost in unless you are one of the very first players to get some really noticeable weapon. First on your server to get a pair of gloves from the hardest boss currently in the game? No-one will notice!
Yes I was sad too that my once covetable position as a raider was made irrelevant. But you know what? I think it was a good thing. People shouldn't think they can judge another player's skill just by looking at their gear. The horrible gearscore mod is typical of this mindset. Someone can have magnificent gear and still be a $%^&ty player - I knew lots of them in my raiding years! Some of the most skilled players can only play a few hours a night, and yeah, maybe that warrior will be a bit harder to heal with 5k less hp, but you know he will actually HOLD AGGRO unlike Mr.Raidtank, who is used to tanking one mob and can't handle a group of 5.
I will pug 25 mans these days but I will never be a hardcore raider again. Thank you Blizzard for making your game more FUN and less WORK.
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Post by
Ental
WARNING! WALL OF TEXT
The problem I see with your post (OP) is this:
What defines a "casual player"?
IF a casual player is: plays x number of hours a week, came into the game late, leveled up a character just to get a DK and then faceroll up to 80 and then start whining because the game is "too hard" for people to attain "the best gear" so they want Blizzard to "make it easier" for access to this so-called "best gear", than sure, I agree with you.
IF a casual player is: started playing and leveled up slowly, spending either very few hours at a time, playing when they could, then spent some nights on it all evening, tried to get in when they could, ran some dungeons, maybe had friends/guild help to level, took a while to level up and then complained about the access to "upper level content", maybe I agree with you.
NOW, for instance, let's say I am a casual player (which actually I consider myself to be), I will use my example as definition: started playing well into BC, played several (if not all) classes before choosing the one I liked best, took a long time to level up (was 40ish in WotLK released), never did a raid, only did dungeons with friends/guild, rarely pugg'ed, hell just recently learned what PUG meant, all the while raising a child, making a marriage work, got two degree's from college, working on a Master's and getting ready for a new child to enter into the family, but only plays when they can and has no access to upper level content or gear because the time sink is just not available, but finds this new LFD system the greatest thing since sliced bread because...
1) can enjoy the game in a new way
2) doesn't have to spend hours on end lfg or hoping he can convince bro-in-law to tank instances for gear farming
3) spend all time online farming gold/mats/achievments for "fun"
I use my example because I am certain that Blizzard saw that this was the issue with a multitude of players. They want to play, but haven't the time or ability to sink into the game to make it fun, therefore considered leaving. Blizzard is a company which is out there to make MONEY. If they decide to market their wares to a majority of the population to make said MONEY, then that is there perrogative, and right in a capitalistic society.
Personally, a lot of the new additions to patches are simply marketing tools to bring players in and bring back old players as well as keep current players happy. Majority of players on WoW do not spend 5-8 hrs a day. Hell, the average player demographic (for MMORPG's) is 26, only 25% are teenagers, 50% work full time, 36% married, and 22% have children. (source:
http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/gateway_demographics.html
)
So, it begs the questions, does WoW know this? If so, what would be a smart thing to do? Should we cater to the person who spends all their time online (which actually, regardless of age, the averege hours played per week is 22, breaks down to ~3hrs a day) or do we find a way to keep our player base (11.5million) and continue raking in the money? (aproximately $1.4 billion in 2008 in subcriptions alone, for the US only!)
Seriously, when I hear arguments like yours, I have to wonder why someone would be so upset about new content like 3.2 and 3.3? Do you not realize that the company and its players are evolving? Do you not want the game to continue? Is it really a huge deal to have spent your time and effort to gain something "the old fasion way" only to be shown later that it is now available to all? This is how the world works, son, get used to it. Blizzard doesn't care about you complaining or getting all worked up about the time investment you decided to put forth for such content and gear... they care about one thing, keeping the company successful and making money.
TL;DR - sorry, no help, go back and read it.
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