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Intellectual Disscussion Regarding Casuals
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Post by
367213
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Post by
239153
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Post by
367213
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Post by
139988
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378079
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Post by
aerion
/sigh
I had a nice little wall of counter-rant written up before realizing that whatever reasonable arguments you get, you have your mind set that this change is an inexcusable offense on Blizzard's part.
In short:
I get content to keep me occupied and playing, I'm happy and I continue paying. I don't get content because it's reserved for the 3% of people that want bragging rights, I don pay. Guess what Blizzard wants.
This type of venting/QQ/rant post was always there when something became a bit less tedious to accomplish, be it in leveling, PvP, PvE, gearing, whatever.
If you're as hardcore as you
seem
, then go do ICC25Heroic and get your epeen to the size of a skyscraper. None of the "unskilled" people that got gear from heroic farming will be sporting your armored frostwyrm. You can demand that they do all hard-modes ever conceived to even come close to raid with the likes of you, but in the end it doesn't matter. I'll be there in my meager 10-man normal corner with a couple of buddies, blasting away through raids and having fun in them.
Sorry to say this, but you do your name great justice.
let the flaming commence, I'm done with this thread
Post by
239153
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Post by
Squishalot
Ok, I'm going to have a go at addressing these points.
New players rather they realize it or not, need to play through the older content first. Or for the most part Tanks. Sure you learn alot of mechanics level 1-80 and doing heroics Buut. None of those are really as difficult as a 10 or 25man Raid boss.
Do you honestly think that you *need* to play through older content first? Would you force all players to run through Molten Core before they're allowed to enter Naxx?
I mean Yes I really just don't like the fact of people getting to 80 and 2 weeks later, Tanking the first wing in ICC 10/25 with out knowing prior machenics of other fights of previous raids.
Firstly, 2 weeks of heroic farming won't get you anywhere near enough gear to tank ICC25. Emblems of Triumph don't go very far. Secondly, if you're tanking ICC25, then you'll already know the mechanics and have demonstrated that to the people you're playing with, because nobody is going to get locked into a raid with a fail tank.
Now, I have not been to any of the ICC bosses, but As always, your learn from all the previous content what to expect. Learn to think on your feet and learn to play your class, If you have not learned this by level 80.
What makes you think that people haven't learned this by level 80?
This really mostly applies to Tanks, but DPS and stuff as well. (Standing in fire, learning that anything green, glowing red, or random things jumping on your are bad, are pretty important to learn before you go and jump "basically" right into the most difficult content available)
Standing in fire, learning that glowing things are generally bad, you pick up most of that in heroics too. You don't need to have had previous raiding experience to know that the black circles on the ground will hurt.
The only argument I see here is that Let them do 10man Normal. They most likely wont get past that. Everything else is for Hardcore, experienced people.
With triumph gear, they *might* be geared for ICC 10. So let them. If they can pull their weight, they can keep raiding. If they suck at raiding because of lack of experience, they won't be invited back.
Well basically the old days of working your arse off for pieces of Tier gear, to get your 2pc/4pc srt bonus are gone, and you can now just farm heroics. I suppose this argument is more or less just of vanity. You could say you got "x" piece of gear. Okay, yeah no reason why the other people shouldn't have it, and lets just hand it to them because they are around 30% of the base player base (Basically what Im getting at here is that your do not get level 50 in Halo, with out working your ass off, yes horrible reference. But best I could do. They do not hand out free levels to people. And yet people still play.)
Yes, this is just vanity. This is the 'back in my day' argument. Turn it around another way. Imagine that you work hard and save up $1,000. Then, after half a year, the jobless bums have managed to save up $1000 from their welfare checks. Yes, the welfare system doesn't reward hard workers, but you're supposed to be rewarding yourself. You want to stay ahead, then keep ahead.
I fully understand blizzards want to let people do content. But they do not realize. They wont even touch the older content. Why? No need. They can just farm heroics and jump into the highest raid.
What makes you think that people want to jump straight from heroics into ICC raiding, if they've never done Naxx or Ulduar before?
And what makes you think that they can just jump into ICC raiding? If some noob in Triumph gear /w's you asking for a raid invite, and then screws up, will you ever invite him back? It's not as simplistic as you think.
It just kinda upsets me. I mean, Yeah sure I'm coming back from break and yes I will farm heroics, not that I will feel more of a joy doing it, than wiping Trying to do Yogg Sarron 2 lights ect.
Whatever makes you happy. If you prefer the challenge, do the challenge. If you just want to gear up faster, gear up faster. Not wiping on Yogg is your own choice. However, to say that you're not going to do the progression is hypocrisy on your part.
(Basically, all previous raids are stepping stones, and learning experiences. I don't think many people will be able to kill Lich King, even on 10man If more than half of them have never even done Keepers and on ward. Naxx is w/e. But really, in my opinion back in Ulduar the guild I was in, If we had new people we would usually do a keepers run,hard mode maybe, to see if the person could handle it. We did not kick them out of guild if they couldn't, We would try and teach them.
Yes. So if someone is geared enough to do ICC10/25, then teach them. And the best way would simply be to teach them in ToC/ICC 10/25, so that each fight isn't just a walk in the park for their gear level.
Now, I was in a semi-hardcore guild (Meaning, Really we were casual but we worked our asses off and made it from like, 70th best Alliance guild to 6th in a little over a month.)
Grats for you. Irrelevant argument. Unless you and your guild can say that you've never purchased badge gear, then you too have been the beneficiary of 'welfare' epics.
I'm just saying Blizzard is making this game to easy.
Does it matter? If the game is too easy, you're not playing the right content. There's only a handful of people who can say that the game is 'too easy' (like that Taiwanese guy with almost all the achievements) - for everyone else, there are generally still more hard modes to be downed.
And if it's too easy, then the tanks and healers who've geared up by heroic spamming will be expert tanks and healers the moment they set foot into ICC. If they're not, and they can't tank properly, then obviously, the game isn't that easy now, is it?
I will edit later, most likely to change some statements and fix spelling errors since I'm typing in frustration.
Looking forward to replies, either to argue with, or to have intellectual discussion, either or would be nice.
Smaller paragraphs, better sentence structure and grammar would make it easier to have a discussion. Just fyi.
Post by
106006
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Post by
borealis
All I know is that, as a tank, it's not exactly easy to just get a naxx raid started. As soon as people realize I'm running it to learn the mechanics and get some raiding experience, people leave.
I hear "hard-core raiders" all the time talk about how casuals have it too easy with the welfare epics and whatnot, but those same raiders are the first to leave when they realize I'm not forming a face-roll-easy-mode naxx badge run.
So yeah, I'm pretty much stuck doing heroics for decent. The funny thing is, most of my badges end up going to heirloom items anyway.
Post by
146178
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Post by
abulurd
The only people who dislike the changes that are being made are the semihardcore. The royalty guilds like ensidia, exodus etc, dont care that casuals can get T9 gear from heroics. It doesnt affect them, nor their epeen. .
Post by
367213
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Post by
vic6string
Blizzard is a business, and this is their biggest product. Their client base consists of different types of players, and they need to cater to all of them to keep getting that $15 a month. Some people would start playing and leave because it took too long to get to 80, so they made entry game and leveling easier. Some people loved the BGs but twinks were killing them, so they split off the twinks into their own BG (knowing most twinks are hard-care gamers that wont leave regardless). Some people hated the game content or were bored of it from lvling alts, so they made it so you can level on just BGs.
Blizzard keeps adapting to keep their entire client base happy. Some people, many people, can't do raids that require strict scheduling of hours a week. I am one of those people. I can play quite a bit, but with a 3 and 4 year old at home, I can't sit at the keyboard for 3 or 4 hours uninterrupted, and I won't get into a raid if I know every 20 or 30 minutes I am going to have to tell everyone to hold on while I AFK for a few minutes. I can do 5 mans and BGs, though. Of course, with everyone now living and dying with gearscores, I cant even get into a group aside from random PUGs because I cant get the gear....now Blizz has fixed that. I am at a bit over 4500, and can keep going up just on the new 5 mans. They have made another segment of their client base happy. There is a reason WoW has been the dominant MMORPG and one of the top games in general for YEARS now.
Post by
Badguy
I wish they didn't add the blue shells.
I used to always come in first place, but now that they have easy to get blue shells, I'm not #1 anymore.
Post by
114610
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Post by
Ossyrus
Ok, so i am a casual player, but i try to get all the content i can. I dinged 80 before Uld patch and was OT in OS25 the same day. Did Naxx10 as OT the next day (yes i was def caped the day i dinged and had all things BiS gemed and enchanted, even shoulder enchant), did 2 easy quarters, did not fail. Getting the Naxx25 achievement took me a month with PUGs. So i do not see why a person can not enter ICC the next day he dinged 80. It all depends on the player, i do not believe ICC content is that hard.
I personally think that elite players need hard tasks and progression for when they overcome those tasks. But a player who sais i have t9 gear and worked 3 months for it and now all have it and that is bad is an elitist. Because an elite player will have t10 1/3 in a month while the rest run around in t9.
Also reading about the old content, doing the current one and reading about new one i do not see anything revolutionary in it ever since vanilla (was so surprised when running BWL with the tank taunt fight mechanic cause of debuff stacks on dragon boss, which i saw in Naxx on dog boss and then in Uld on drake boss - been there since vanilla, just one example) so previous content is not a stepping stone, u can learn the same in any content. And if there is some absolutely new fight in ICC how the hell doing Naxx or Uld or EoE or BT or AQ10000 gonna help? Basically as soon as u finish the last boss of a raid, the following experience in this raid is just farm of gear usually. So why if i got the totc25 achi last week before patch, should i not be able to go ICC this week and have to farm t9 gear for another 2 or 3 months with PUGs? Should i leave my friendly social guild and join a raiding one? No, i don't want to. Will the elite players be able to show off cool t10 gear in a week of two and have a sence of accomplishement compared to those who failed at first boss? Yes. So what is the problem?
Post by
374287
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Post by
161859
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Post by
Setters
What's wrong with Casuals? Let them play like a normal person. You also keep saying Blizz has made the game too easy. I have one word: Hardmodes.
Seriously, unless you have experienced wiping on Hardmode Anub-arak, Hardmode Freya, Mimiron, Twin Valks, even 1 Light Yogg, you don't know what easy is. Blizz still gave us hard content to conquer, and the rewards for those tough encounters. Do you see Casuals riding on
Reins of the Ironbound Proto-Drake
on your server?
And as abulard has said, you're semi-hardcore. I'm from a top raiding guild, and none of us actually care that people are getting gear a lot easier. In fact, all it really meant was now our alts can get more gear. We went into ICC the first night, downed all the bosses with ease (not actually Saurfang, our server crashed and we were granted a "unique" bug that no one else has =P) So now we are waiting for new bosses while farming for gear. Then when Arthas is finally down we go for Hardmodes and of course compete for top guild on the server.
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