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PTR
10.2.5
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10.2.6
Armp
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Post by
330468
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Porcell
Armor Penetration is capped at 100%. This 100% includes Battle Stance, Mace Spec, and ArP on gear. It does NOT include debuffs like Sunder Armor, Expose Armor, Faerie Fire,.
So an arms warrior automatically get 10% ArP from Battle Stance. If they are using a Mace, that means they are now at 25% ArP. Mjolnir Runestone's Proc is 665 ArP (47.5%) and Grim Toll's Proc is 612 ArP (43.7%). If you have Mjolnir or Grim Toll, you want to stack ArP from gear so that when your trinket procs you are at 100%.
Battle Stance(10) + Mace(15) + Mjolnir(47.5) = 72.5% ArP, so you need 27.5% from Gear/Gems, which is 385 Rating.
Battle Stance(10) + Mace(15) + GrimToll(43.7) = 68.7% ArP, so you need 31.3% from Gear/Gems, which is 439 Rating.
Battle Stance(10) + Axe/Sword(0) + Mjolnir(47.5) = 57.5% ArP, so you need 42.5% from Gear/Gems, which is 595 Rating.
Battle Stance(10) + Axe/Sword(0) + GrimToll(43.7) = 53.7% ArP, so you need 46.3% from Gear/Gems, which is 649 Rating.
Battle Stance(10) + Mace(15) + NoTrinket = 25% ArP, so you need 75% from Gear/Gems, which is 1050 rating.
Battle Stance(10) + Axe/Sword(0) + NoTrinket = 10% ArP, so you need 90% from Gear/Gems, which is 1260 rating.
Fury:
Mjolnir(47.5) = 47.5% ArP, so you need 52.5% from Gear/Gems, which is 735 Rating.
GrimToll(43.7) = 43.7% ArP, so you need 56.3% from Gear/Gems, which is 789 Rating.
NoTrinket = 0% ArP, so you need 100% from Gear/Gems, which is 1400 rating.
Post by
Docholiday77
i think your numbers are off porcell. I dont know where, but i know with MR for fury, its 735 to soft cap.
Post by
Porcell
i think your numbers are off porcell. I dont know where, but i know with MR for fury, its 735 to soft cap.
You know, I started off doing the numbers using 14 rating per 1%, and then second guessed myself because I looked at an item on Wowhead (
Spikeguards
), and that tooltip said 50 is 4.06% @ L80, which would be 50/4.06 = 12.315 rating per 1%. I just logged in to game and equipped my Spikeguards, and it is actually 50 for 3.57%, which is 14 rating per 1%.
I've gone back and edited my original post back to using 14 per 1% like I had before...
. So while I was in game I put on my fury gear. Now, fury is my offspec and I only use it maybe once every couple of weeks if we have an extra tank in the raid and they want me to DPS. I've somehow, without much trying, got nearly a full 245 set. As fury I have 607 passive ArP from my gear, not gemmed for it at all, which is 43.34%. Unfortunately I have junk trinkets still, so no GT or MR for me.
Post by
Docholiday77
ya, the wowhead stuff doesnt formulate arp right. I noticed that using the profiler :(
Post by
skumbananer
Tell her to ignore armor pen. Its a hard stat to balance, and ive seen many warrs fail miserably on dps just cause they read somewhere that armor pen is teh shiet. (those would probably fail anyway, so might not be relevant)
Without a single arp gem or arp trinket you can top meters anyway. Ignore it, if its already on gear, fine, but dont go looking for it. 26 (18 with talents) expertise, 8% hit are the only caps to worry about reaching, after that strength and crit, both as much as possible.
Ofc you might be able to achieve better results with some extensive theorycrafting, where you calculate every piece of gear and give stats different values etc, but from reading your post about your friend, im get the impression that it is not relevant here. Im even guessing she dont have either mjolnir runestone or grim toll anyway. So keep it simple, 2 caps (hit and expertise) then just str and crit.
Post by
172710
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
355887
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Porcell
STR>ArP until your AP is ridiculously ungodly. By the time you're at that gear level the gear you want will come pre-packaged with lotsa Strength and lotsa ArP, and you'll still socket for STR. I'm not saying the ArP isn't valuable, because it is. But Str is better, and until you're pushing 45-50% crit, critical strike rating is better than ArP, as well
Are you just making this up as you go along? Unless you are over the ArP cap, crit is never going to be better than ArP.
Same sample numbers (based on MaxDPS's combat calculations). This is ArP Rating, Attack Power, and Crit Percentage. Starting with 400 Arp, then again for 700 and 900 Arp. I modify the numbers by 1 full gem worth, so 20 ArP, 20 Strength (20*1.1*1.2*2 = 53 AP), and 20 Crit Rating (20/45.91 = 0.44% crit)
For Fury:
400, 5000, 30 = 3722.9
420, 5000, 30 = 3743.5
400, 5053, 30, = 3745.5
400, 5000, 30.44, = 3739.6
700, 5000, 30 = 4058.7
720, 5000, 30 = 4083.2
700, 5053, 30 = 4083.4
700, 5000, 30.44 = 4076.9
900, 5000, 30 = 4318.4
920, 5000, 30 = 4346.2
900, 5053, 30 = 4344.6
900, 5000, 30.44 = 4337.8
For Arms:
200, 5000, 30 = 2886.8
220, 5000, 30 = 2900.62
200, 5046, 30, = 2902.16
200, 5000, 30.44, = 2896.09
400, 5000, 30 = 3032.82
420, 5000, 30 = 3048.44
400, 5046, 30, = 3048.97
400, 5000, 30.44, = 3042.46
This nicely illustrates the "The more you have, the better it is" aspect of Armor Penetration. For Fury combat, Strength gets an extra 20% from Imp Zerker, which is why the Strength Gem fares so well and it takes much more Armor Penetration before ArP becomes better than Strength. For the Arms numbers, you see you need much less ArP before it becomes better than Strength.
One more real-wordly set. Fury, you have 10 gem slots that are empty. You have 400 ArP, 5000 AP, and 30% crit on your gear:
400, 5000, 30 = 3722.9
600, 5000, 30 = 3940.2
400, 5528, 30, = 3948.4
400, 5000, 34.36, = 3888.3
So, like it's always said, Strength is better for Fury, unless you are somehow getting really close to the ArP cap passively from gear.
And for Arms:
300, 5000, 30 = 2957.59
500, 5000, 30 = 3112.93
300, 5458, 30, = 3114.27
300, 5000, 34.36, = 3050.90
So you need about 300 passive ArP on your gear before ArP starts to pull even with Strength. 300 passive ArP is about 21%. So again, like people say often (but are probably just saying because other people say it), you should start gemming for ArP as Arms when you have 30% ArP from gear (Although I'd revise and say probably closer to 25%).
Post by
Docholiday77
I have always believed that unless you get one of the two trinks don't ever gem for ArP. If you can get one of those trinks then start to gem and work for gear to get the cap.
It really depends on your gear level and what you are raiding. It is very possible to get 100% arp without a trinket, which is obviously the best choice. For those starting out, this isnt really an option, and they should stick with strength.
Post by
172710
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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