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My threat per second low?
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Post by
twitch77
just a quick question. . .
i do about 4,400 threat per second on most raid bosses (10 or 25 man) (according to my addon ktm).
is this low for a prot warrior?
was talking to my friend i tank with alot who's a druid. he says he tops 10k tps quite a bit.
now i don't lose threat on bosses, so i don't really care what my tps is tbh. . .as long as i'm holding i feel i don't need to worry. though i do keep an eye on my meter to make sure i'm top threat during a fight.
i can link my armory (pretty nice gear) and go through my rotation if you guys want. . .but i'm just looking for a comparison to what you guys are getting as far as tps goes.
thnx.
Post by
Sakkura
Seems somewhat low but also depends a lot on your gear and spec.
Post by
hashmel
defensive stance grants a 2.0735% threat bonus to all the damage you deal and certain abilities also have +threat attributes
so generally your tps will be roughly 2x your dps plus ~500 or so
melee dps need to generate >110% to steal aggro
ranged need to generate >130% to steal aggro
with 4400 tps that allows melee to generate no more than 4840 threat and ranged no more than 5720 threat safely
due to dps having threat reductions they can deal more dps than they generate in tps
based on your 4400 tps your threat generation will allow dps to generate the following sustained dps numbers safely (1 dps over these will begin generating more threat than you)
rogue or cat
= 6816
lock or fire/frost mage
= 6355
dps DK (w/o subversion) or arms warrior
= 6050
dps DK (with subversion)
= 7562
arcane mage
= 9533
ret pally or enh shaman
= 6914
shadow priest
= 7627
fury warrior
= 6722
boomkin or elem shaman
= 8171
(healers shouldn't even come close to outaggroing you and hunters can completely reset their threat every 30 seconds)
your threat gen is sufficient but if you tend to run with very well geared people i'd try to stick with primarily ranged dps as your threat gen may hinder melee
Post by
twitch77
awesome post hashmel, really appreciate this.
i'm so not good at numbers, but this has helped alot and all your numbers match what i've seen.
i don't usually run with any dps who have higher gear scores then i have (not by choice). i'm rarely in groups with people pulling 6k+ dps. 6k is about the max, and usually only 1 maybe 2 will be pulling those numbers.
usually in the groups i run with, hunters are top of the tps charts (under me). . .but with their threat reduction abilities coupled with my vigilance there's no issue here either.
here's my armory
i guess i'll just naturaly start producing higher tps as i gear?
again threat isn't an issue at this moment with the groups i run with. . .just something i've been wondering about.
Post by
hashmel
your dps hence tps will increase as your gear does and as you tighten your rotation
raid comp will also play a major role as will luck and good use of vigilance, tricks of the trade, misdirect, feign death, invisibility, vanish, feint, cower, fade, soulshatter, etc
i can't help but doubt the claims of your friend's 10k tps as that would mean they were pushing about 4.2k dps...the only way i could see this is if they were using dps gear with a dps spec in bear form which is basically a gimmick for 5 man heroics and nothing more...now 10k Dps is another story
glad i could clarify what your threat can handle, best of luck to you
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
hashmel
anything constructive to contribute to the OP?
Post by
Porcell
TPS numbers always seem to get inflated, because people glance over at Omen, see 7000 or 8000 flash there and think that's how much threat they are doing.
Here's a damage breakdown of a recent heroic Jaraxxus kill, which is about as close to a no-modifier tank and spank as we have right now.
(+) Devastate(R5) 255,511 103
(+) Heroic Strike(R13) 244,600 170
(+) Revenge(R9) 105,500 43
(+) Shield Slam(R8) 71,665 19
(+) Deep Wound 66,957 250
(+) Melee 47,436 58
(+) Thunder Clap(R9) 16,328 15
(+) Damage Shield 9,997 35
(+) Shockwave 9,489 3
(+) Heroic Throw 5,101 1
Fight Time: 353 Seconds
DPS: 2366
TPS According to WMO: 4772
Lets see how accurate WMO's calculation is. All the damage totaled is 835,357. Adding up the hidden threat, 103 Dev @ 630+~500 (not sure exactly how much AP I had) = 116,390. 170 HS @ 259 each = 44,030. 43 Revenge @ 121 each = 5203. 19 Shield Slams @ 770 = 14,630. Deepwounds and Melee are already covered in the damage section. Thunderclap is 1.85* Damage as threat, so an additional 0.85*16328 = 13,879. Damage Shield is straight damage so it's covered, and Heroic Throw is 1.5*Damage, so an additional 0.50*5101 = 2550.
835,357 + 116,390 + 44,030 + 5203 + 14,630 + 13,879 + 2550 = 1,032,039 unmodified threat. My threat modifier is 207.35% and another 102% for glove enchant. So total threat actually done was 2,182,731. Over 353 second that's 6183 TPS. Margin of error (based on non-exact AP) is +/-61 TPS (based on +/- 1000 AP).
So in really high end gear, and a static fight, you can expect between 6000-6500 TPS, IMO.
Post by
355605
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
hashmel
when people ask your dps do you link them a 1 second snippet of you aoeing the whelps on ony?
18k damage per second for 1 second isn't an accurate portrayal of your dps now is it.
if you would next time, be reletively polite and constructive and check your e-peen at the door
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Porcell
I am glancing at omen several times. Regardless of crits. Porcell counted overall average steady Tps but threat is nowhere near steady. With steady 6k, having 7-8k peaks is quite normal dont you think?
Also notice that Porcell isnt counting TnT and MD. With those having a steady 7k is quite possible.
More likely his druid friend checked omen after a series of crits. 10k tps? Druid? No way.
I am sick and tired of toc geared warrior tanks doing daily heroics and still not being able to tps properly (cleave? what is that?).
Yeah, it's impossible to get accurate threat data that incorporates TnT, MDs, and Vigilance, unless there's some data recording mod for Omen that collects threat information over time (which, actually, I'd be really interesting in using).
As I showed, a plain sit-n-tank fight like Jaraxxus you can hit over 6k TPS sustained just by yourself. If your rogues and hunters are good, then you should be getting periodic threat bumps from them throughout the fight, and Vigilance will add another ~500-600 TPS.
Post by
Sakkura
@OP: You can and should improve your single-target threat. One bit of help would come from swapping glyphs; blocking or vigilance (or both) are good options. Shockwave and cleaving are meh glyphs for a raid tank.
Making hunters and rogues misdirect/TotT you more could help a lot, and maybe your use of abilities could be improved too. Eg. spam heroic strike constantly or nearly constantly on quite a few bosses.
Post by
twitch77
One bit of help would come from swapping glyphs; blocking or vigilance (or both) are good options.
thanks for this.
switched my glyphs so now my majors are taunt (my hit % is low), blocking and vig.
i do spam heroic strike as much as i can. only time i'll stop is when i go low on rage and am unable to keep enough for my more important abilities.
my rotation is probably way off.
usually start a boss pull with taunt+heroic throw.
shield slam (keeping it on cooldown at all times), devistate to 5 stacks of sunder (with heroic strikes in there if i have the rage built up), revenge whenever it's up. and after 5 stacks of sunder i shockwave+demo shout.
at this point i usually just devistate+spam heroic strike, keeping my shield slam and revenge on cooldown, and will pop shockwave and demo shout before the debuffs fall off the boss.
i in no way consider myself pro at this game. i'm brand new to raiding. only been raiding for about 1 1/2 months now. . .and am learning as i go.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
twitch77
wow getting alot of great advice here. i really do appreciate all of it.
yeah lol it's been a long morning. i did indeed mean thunderclap (not shockwave).
what should i be replacing my devistate with then? up till now i've been using it as my filler, while everything else is on cooldown.
usually keep pounding on my revenge, and spam devistate as my filler.
any suggestions?
also i agree with you on raids becoming easier (toc and ony 2.0 to be specific).
i know alot of people hate it. i for one am grateful. i consider myself a very slow learner. took me a long time to get as far as i've gotten, and i know i have a long ways to go yet.
but we've all gotta start somewhere. it took a long time for my in game friends to convince me to even step into a raid.
half of uld is cake, it's when we get into the tier bosses we start having issues.
10 toc is extremely easy.
but i like that. . .toc is a nice place for me to start getting more comfortable in a raiding environment without a huge amount of pressure.
it's also proving to be a great place for me to learn a little about wtf i'm doing.
i'm glad there's raids like this for people like me to really start learning more about raiding in general without a huge amount of pressure.
and that's why there's hard modes for those who have the skills for it.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Sakkura
usually start a boss pull with taunt+heroic throw.
shield slam (keeping it on cooldown at all times), devistate to 5 stacks of sunder (with heroic strikes in there if i have the rage built up), revenge whenever it's up. and after 5 stacks of sunder i shockwave+demo shout.
at this point i usually just devistate+spam heroic strike, keeping my shield slam and revenge on cooldown, and will pop shockwave and demo shout before the debuffs fall off the boss.
Taunt does nothing for you on the pull, save it for later in case someone overnukes. One option is heroic throw - bloodrage - charge, then start your rotation but pass over revenge in favor of devastate until you reach 5 stacks. Revenge is not a great deal better than devastate any longer, so stacking sunders is more important in the opening phase.
Otherwise it seems alright.
Post by
262839
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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