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[Hero Class, Outline] Dark Ranger
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Post by
Orranis
Only just read the reply posts. DK runic power was a big failure. Besides, energy is already tried and tested, and this isn't a hero class. Also, the Paladins and Shamans are also intended to be a DPS class and can also heal. Note neither of these classes are as good a healer as say..a priest, because a priest's main role is healing and sub role DPS. (Plus look at all starting gears for paladins and shamans now. No axes involved there.)
Dude... The pressure caused by all the wrong in that post could cause you to implode.
DK runic power was a big failure.
So many examples, and a lot of valid arguments here. Of course it failed, were only balanced with the other melee DPS, while having the funnest system!
Besides, energy is already tried and tested
Your point being?
and this isn't a hero class.
Why isn't it?
Also, the Paladins and Shamans are also intended to be a DPS class and can also heal. Note neither of these classes are as good a healer as say..a priest, because a priest's main role is healing and sub role DPS.
While I agree Shadow Priests are a bit lacking, that has nothing to do with intention. First of all, I'd take a Shaman over a Priest any day. All classes you listed can both heal and DPS, and do so (except for Priest) at a very close range to the others.
(Plus look at all starting gears for paladins and shamans now. No axes involved there.)
I fail to see what you're trying to prove.
Post by
Orranis
I like it, but on several parts it isn't logical -
1)2h axe for a hunter (HEALER?) type class?
2)Blizz would never, never make a class that relies on 'Soul Energy'. This new class, would use normal energy perhaps?
-Snipz
You're an idiot. A 2h axe for a hunter type class? Kind of like how Hunters can use 2h axes?
Post by
Patty
While I agree Shadow Priests are a bit lacking, that has nothing to do with intention. First of all, I'd take a Shaman over a Priest any day. All classes you listed can both heal and DPS, and do so (except for Priest) at a very close range to the others.
Haste-scaling DoTs and utility disagrees with you. ^^
Post by
Orranis
While I agree Shadow Priests are a bit lacking, that has nothing to do with intention. First of all, I'd take a Shaman over a Priest any day. All classes you listed can both heal and DPS, and do so (except for Priest) at a very close range to the others.
Haste-scaling DoTs and utility disagrees with you. ^^
I meant in the fact that when someone hears Priest, they automatically think "HEALZ", not in DPS. Shadow is one of the most underused specs I ever see.
Post by
Morec0
A 2-h axe for a healing class seems a bit odd, but who said that the 2-h axes have to be the healing wepon of choice?
Paladins can use polearms, but you never see a healing pally with a polearm. Your complaint dosn't hold water.
Post by
Adamsm
Bit of a necro but.... here's some info on the original Dark Rangers:
Description: When Sylvanas Windrunner, Banshee Queen of the Forsaken, regained her physical body, she realized that the natural world would never respond to her wishes again. Angered by this development, she turned to arts that were becoming more and more natural to her: necromancy. She then altered her elven ranger teachings into a new form. Thus the dark rangers were born. Dark rangers are similar to their elf cousins, but focus on shadowcraft more than nature. Dark rangers are silent and invisible stalkers of the shadows, felling unsuspecting opponents with a single arrow. Dark rangers still favor the bow as the ultimate weapon, using the same arts that Quel’Thalas taught for millennia. Their spells work with manipulating the essences of life and death, as well as various horrible curses and mind-enslaving abilities.
Dark Rangers in the World: Dark rangers are found only among the Forsaken. No other race has the elves’ history coupled with the personal knowledge of shadows to learn the arts of a dark ranger. In fact, many dark rangers refuse to teach their arts to anyone who wasn’t a former elf. While these rangers have slackened their restrictions some, most dark rangers were once elves. Once fully trained, Sylvanas’s dark rangers once again assumed their roles as guardians and hunters, now working for the Forsaken. Some undead, especially former elves, view rangers as a necessary force, and trust them implicitly. Other Forsaken view these shadow killers as relics of an old past, with an inability to move along with the times. While they no longer study nature, dark rangers remain some of the best trackers in the world. Naturally, most dark rangers hail from the scout class, but many newer rangers are former rogues, who use their stealth abilities to act as silent and near-invisible slayers for the Dark Lady. Dark rangers work well with most other classes. Dark rangers are both part warrior and part divine caster, and thus find companions in both martial and healer classes. Rogues take well to the shadowy pursuits and abilities of a dark ranger, while scouts naturally pair well with the dark ranger’s tracking abilities. While all spells a dark ranger casts are divine, some of their spells are arcane in origin, and their focus on necromancy and curses interests both necromancers and warlocks. A recent movement among the Forsaken has taken hold of the dark rangers. The Cult of Forgotten Shadow moves like wildfire among the undead, and the dark rangers are no exception to the obsession with the faith. To fill the void left by the loss of their druidism, the dark rangers latched onto the Forgotten Shadow. Most dark rangers sympathize with the origins of the Forgotten Shadow, and perhaps understand the Shadow more than any other undead in Lordaeron. While this movement disturbs Lady Sylvanas, she allows it to continue.
Converting from Elven to Dark
An elven ranger who dies and returns as a Forsaken undergoes a great shock. She can no longer cast elven ranger spells, and loses her woodland stride ability. While some may choose to let things be, most immediately seek out a dark ranger to relearn their arts. An elven ranger seeking to convert to a dark ranger must, of course, have died, returned as a Forsaken, and seek to learn the arts of the shadow rather than the wild. This ordeal is difficult, as the dark ranger must twist everything she was taught about nature to start learning her darker trade. To start this process, the elven ranger must have at least 3 ranks in Stealth. Then comes the hard part. A dark ranger-to-be must undergo a lengthy trial, where she unlearns everything she was taught as an elf and learns the new arts of a Forsaken. Upon gaining her next class level, her levels in elven ranger become levels of dark ranger.
Post by
Orranis
Bit of a necro but.... here's some info on the original Dark Rangers:
Description: When Sylvanas Windrunner, Banshee Queen of the Forsaken, regained her physical body, she realized that the natural world would never respond to her wishes again. Angered by this development, she turned to arts that were becoming more and more natural to her: necromancy. She then altered her elven ranger teachings into a new form. Thus the dark rangers were born. Dark rangers are similar to their elf cousins, but focus on shadowcraft more than nature. Dark rangers are silent and invisible stalkers of the shadows, felling unsuspecting opponents with a single arrow. Dark rangers still favor the bow as the ultimate weapon, using the same arts that Quel’Thalas taught for millennia. Their spells work with manipulating the essences of life and death, as well as various horrible curses and mind-enslaving abilities.
Dark Rangers in the World: Dark rangers are found only among the Forsaken. No other race has the elves’ history coupled with the personal knowledge of shadows to learn the arts of a dark ranger. In fact, many dark rangers refuse to teach their arts to anyone who wasn’t a former elf. While these rangers have slackened their restrictions some, most dark rangers were once elves. Once fully trained, Sylvanas’s dark rangers once again assumed their roles as guardians and hunters, now working for the Forsaken. Some undead, especially former elves, view rangers as a necessary force, and trust them implicitly. Other Forsaken view these shadow killers as relics of an old past, with an inability to move along with the times. While they no longer study nature, dark rangers remain some of the best trackers in the world. Naturally, most dark rangers hail from the scout class, but many newer rangers are former rogues, who use their stealth abilities to act as silent and near-invisible slayers for the Dark Lady. Dark rangers work well with most other classes. Dark rangers are both part warrior and part divine caster, and thus find companions in both martial and healer classes. Rogues take well to the shadowy pursuits and abilities of a dark ranger, while scouts naturally pair well with the dark ranger’s tracking abilities. While all spells a dark ranger casts are divine, some of their spells are arcane in origin, and their focus on necromancy and curses interests both necromancers and warlocks. A recent movement among the Forsaken has taken hold of the dark rangers. The Cult of Forgotten Shadow moves like wildfire among the undead, and the dark rangers are no exception to the obsession with the faith. To fill the void left by the loss of their druidism, the dark rangers latched onto the Forgotten Shadow. Most dark rangers sympathize with the origins of the Forgotten Shadow, and perhaps understand the Shadow more than any other undead in Lordaeron. While this movement disturbs Lady Sylvanas, she allows it to continue.
Converting from Elven to Dark
An elven ranger who dies and returns as a Forsaken undergoes a great shock. She can no longer cast elven ranger spells, and loses her woodland stride ability. While some may choose to let things be, most immediately seek out a dark ranger to relearn their arts. An elven ranger seeking to convert to a dark ranger must, of course, have died, returned as a Forsaken, and seek to learn the arts of the shadow rather than the wild. This ordeal is difficult, as the dark ranger must twist everything she was taught about nature to start learning her darker trade. To start this process, the elven ranger must have at least 3 ranks in Stealth. Then comes the hard part. A dark ranger-to-be must undergo a lengthy trial, where she unlearns everything she was taught as an elf and learns the new arts of a Forsaken. Upon gaining her next class level, her levels in elven ranger become levels of dark ranger.
Meh, the second was from the RPG game, not really lore. Can you necro my Shadow Hunter plox?
Post by
Adamsm
Both were from the RPG game Face; so they both fall under lore heh.
Post by
Orranis
Both were from the RPG game Face; so they both fall under lore heh.
Meh, I wasn't meaning like that. I mean the second one feels like it's repeating the information in the first for game mechanics, not actual lore.
Post by
Morec0
I realize I tweaked the original lore a bit, but hasn't that been done since the beganing of WoW?
Post by
Adamsm
I realize I tweaked the original lore a bit, but hasn't that been done since the beganing of WoW?
Nothing wrong with that Morec heh, merely adding in a bit of expanded lore for ya heh.
Post by
Morec0
I realize I tweaked the original lore a bit, but hasn't that been done since the beganing of WoW?
Nothing wrong with that Morec heh, merely adding in a bit of expanded lore for ya heh.
I did my research on the matter before and while working on this, but thanks.
Post by
dumac
one thing about this I wondering about, you mention they are gonna be healer also. So I was thinking on how it would exactly work, if they use a soul system like suggested they would not exactly run out of soul and ways to make shards.
All healer class who exist in game uses mana, mana gotta be conserved or otherwise he goes out of mana. Also the healer will always risk going out of mana if fight is too long or too much dmg. This is something i look at a needed thing. A healer should not be able to never have to worry if he will run out of resources.
Or are the ranger not gonna be a true healer, is he gonna be a more of a subversion healer. Aka he gain have infitine soul regeneration due hitting the target, but he will not be able to match a healers power.
This would be kinda defeating the purpose to be a healer at all, due he would not be able to skillfully do a heroic as a healer assigned, the specc would more of be a supporting raiding specc.
Just some thoughts on how the healing side of a ranger would work really.
Post by
Morec0
one thing about this I wondering about, you mention they are gonna be healer also. So I was thinking on how it would exactly work, if they use a soul system like suggested they would not exactly run out of soul and ways to make shards.
All healer class who exist in game uses mana, mana gotta be conserved or otherwise he goes out of mana. Also the healer will always risk going out of mana if fight is too long or too much dmg. This is something i look at a needed thing. A healer should not be able to never have to worry if he will run out of resources.
Or are the ranger not gonna be a true healer, is he gonna be a more of a subversion healer. Aka he gain have infitine soul regeneration due hitting the target, but he will not be able to match a healers power.
This would be kinda defeating the purpose to be a healer at all, due he would not be able to skillfully do a heroic as a healer assigned, the specc would more of be a supporting raiding specc.
Just some thoughts on how the healing side of a ranger would work really.
The Dark Ranger's healing dosn't use its soul system, its uses its own life. The rangers then must drain life from a target - or regenerate it in another way - in order to keep healing (of course they're going to have spell that heal themselves that use their soul powers).
So you have an interesting balance of minimal DPSing and good healing in one.
It would take a bit of balancing, buts I don't think its impossible. Throw in a few self-preservation abilities (rune tap, vanish, lay on hands, desperate prayer) that use the Soul power as well and it would work out I think.
Post by
Nordigo
Dark Rangers as a class already exist. They're not just playable in the MMO, altough I'm fairly certain they are playable on WoW pen-and-paper RPG. And you know why? Because Blizzard would have a helluva time balancing racial classes. I'd freaking love to see race and class related hero/prestige classes, such as Spell-Breaker (Blood Elf), Exemplar (Human, mainly), Hexer, Dwarven Avatar, Vindicator (Draenei, Human), Demon Hunter (All night/blood elves) - list goes on.
..But it falls on PvP balance. They couldn't even counterbalance Shamans and Paladins, they probably can't balance every race with their own class. Would be freaking amazing to see, but won't happen. Neither will this. And no, this can't become a hero class because Dark Ranger is a Forsaken prestige class, you know this, you can't twist the lore in any way to make it applicaple to any other race.
-----
I'm pretty interested on why people see so much trouble to write out these mountains of abilities and ideas, when they simply will not be implemented, ever, because as said for example Dark Rangers already exist in lore. Just to get it out of their heads? *shrug* Must be.
Post by
Orranis
Dark Rangers as a class already exist. They're not just playable in the MMO, altough I'm fairly certain they are playable on WoW pen-and-paper RPG. And you know why? Because Blizzard would have a helluva time balancing racial classes. I'd freaking love to see race and class related hero/prestige classes, such as Spell-Breaker (Blood Elf), Exemplar (Human, mainly), Hexer, Dwarven Avatar, Vindicator (Draenei, Human), Demon Hunter (All night/blood elves) - list goes on.
..But it falls on PvP balance. They couldn't even counterbalance Shamans and Paladins, they probably can't balance every race with their own class. Would be freaking amazing to see, but won't happen. Neither will this. And no, this can't become a hero class because Dark Ranger is a Forsaken prestige class, you know this, you can't twist the lore in any way to make it applicaple to any other race.
-----
I'm pretty interested on why people see so much trouble to write out these mountains of abilities and ideas, when they simply will not be implemented, ever, because as said for example Dark Rangers already exist in lore. Just to get it out of their heads? *shrug* Must be.
They don't have to be racial classes...
Post by
Morec0
Dark Rangers as a class already exist. They're not just playable in the MMO, altough I'm fairly certain they are playable on WoW pen-and-paper RPG. And you know why? Because Blizzard would have a helluva time balancing racial classes. I'd freaking love to see race and class related hero/prestige classes, such as Spell-Breaker (Blood Elf), Exemplar (Human, mainly), Hexer, Dwarven Avatar, Vindicator (Draenei, Human), Demon Hunter (All night/blood elves) - list goes on.
..But it falls on PvP balance. They couldn't even counterbalance Shamans and Paladins, they probably can't balance every race with their own class. Would be freaking amazing to see, but won't happen. Neither will this. And no, this can't become a hero class because Dark Ranger is a Forsaken prestige class, you know this, you can't twist the lore in any way to make it applicaple to any other race.
-----
I'm pretty interested on why people see so much trouble to write out these mountains of abilities and ideas, when they simply will not be implemented, ever, because as said for example Dark Rangers already exist in lore. Just to get it out of their heads? *shrug* Must be.
They don't have to be racial classes...
And the Woodland ranger is the Alliance counterpat.
Same ability effects and whatnot, but a different name and ability names.
Post by
Nordigo
They don't have to be racial classes...
But they are. To be a Dark Ranger, you have to follow the religion of Forgotten Shadow. You also need to be a dead, and preferably an elf, as the lore stands. No living being can handle the horrible things the Shadow does for you for long, much like arcane and fel magic transform and age their users before their time if used without restraint. Forsaken are already able to exist by dark magics so in fact you could say Shadow magic is beneficial to their existence, altough necromantic magics are obviously different in type. We already have "woodlands rangers" in the game, they are called hunters.
Dwarven Avatars channel the power of the Earth through them through their ancient Earthen heritage, taking forms highly resistant to damage while pounding enemies with stonefists from the earth. Shaman's can't do that, because shaman asks aid from the elements, while an Avatar directly controls the earth.
Spell-breakers are elven warriors that have studied magic fervently and can counter and steal almost any spell and distribute beneficial spells among their own ranks, being highly dangerous opponents to any magic users. Altough theoretically possible to become one even if you're not an elf, high/blood elves have innate understanding over magics most humans and other magic users do not.
-------
You know, listen. I applaud your patience to put up such a post and tons of info you have collected and created for the class, but as the current lore stands, dark/woodland rangers will not become a playable class to all races, not in the MMO at least. I seriously doubt the the forsaken hunter class will have anything to differentiate them from other hunters because the playerbase would cry foul.
And as I asked, what compelled you to write this? Not like Metzen reads these forums as far as I know (he is the guy responsible for the lore department), and I'm pretty certain he doesn't have direct control over how classes are created in the game. Just had to get this idea out of your head or something? Because this, like millions of other race/class ideas I've seen here, no matter how well thought out, will never see daylight.
Post by
Orranis
They don't have to be racial classes...
But they are. To be a Dark Ranger, you have to follow the religion of Forgotten Shadow. You also need to be a dead, and preferably an elf, as the lore stands. No living being can handle the horrible things the Shadow does for you for long, much like arcane and fel magic transform and age their users before their time if used without restraint. Forsaken are already able to exist by dark magics so in fact you could say Shadow magic is beneficial to their existence, altough necromantic magics are obviously different in type. We already have "woodlands rangers" in the game, they are called hunters.
I agree on part with the rangers, but the whole dead thing... We have Death Knights don't we? And thousands of other undead, whatever race? Perhaps with the rise of Bolvar the Lich King, they have regained their will, and from there...
Dwarven Avatars channel the power of the Earth through them through their ancient Earthen heritage, taking forms highly resistant to damage while pounding enemies with stonefists from the earth. Shaman's can't do that, because shaman asks aid from the elements, while an Avatar directly controls the earth.
Well it depends what other races we have in future. Also, very theoretically, a human could be become one being descendants of the Vrykul.
Spell-breakers are elven warriors that have studied magic fervently and can counter and steal almost any spell and distribute beneficial spells among their own ranks, being highly dangerous opponents to any magic users. Altough theoretically possible to become one even if you're not an elf, high/blood elves have innate understanding over magics most humans and other magic users do not.
Night Elf mages. The Highbourne. Cataclysm! While I'm having a hard time with most of these, this holds no water.
Post by
Morec0
They don't have to be racial classes...
But they are. To be a Dark Ranger, you have to follow the religion of Forgotten Shadow. You also need to be a dead, and preferably an elf, as the lore stands. No living being can handle the horrible things the Shadow does for you for long, much like arcane and fel magic transform and age their users before their time if used without restraint. Forsaken are already able to exist by dark magics so in fact you could say Shadow magic is beneficial to their existence, altough necromantic magics are obviously different in type. We already have "woodlands rangers" in the game, they are called hunters.
Did you even read the lore section or any of the quests? One states that all dark rangers follow the Forgotten Shadow. And you don't have to be an elf, take
Nathanos Blightcaller
for instance, and the dead part... well you kill (or at least subjugate) the part of your soul that would make it difficult for you to weild the dark powers - so that counts for something.
Again - did you read? This is a different class idea completely;
1) No pets.
2) No mana (or that focus thing hunters are going to be using in Cata).
3) Restricted to leather and cloth only.
4) Can heal and most abilities focus around their whispers rather then their ranged weapon.
You know, listen. I applaud your patience to put up such a post and tons of info you have collected and created for the class, but as the current lore stands, dark/woodland rangers will not become a playable class to all races, not in the MMO at least. I seriously doubt the the forsaken hunter class will have anything to differentiate them from other hunters because the playerbase would cry foul.
And as I asked, what compelled you to write this? Not like Metzen reads these forums as far as I know (he is the guy responsible for the lore department), and I'm pretty certain he doesn't have direct control over how classes are created in the game. Just had to get this idea out of your head or something? Because this, like millions of other race/class ideas I've seen here, no matter how well thought out, will never see daylight.
Lore can be tweaked - technically there shouldn't have been any way that draenei could become death knight (there are far to few of them, or something like that). And again, and again, and again hunters have nothing to do with this.
Why? Because I wanted to. As you said, I wanted to get them out of them head. And so what if they'll never become a playable class/race? Now people can see my ideas, enjoy reading them, maybe be inspired to come up with some of their own, and I just had fun think it up and writing it.
That said I invite you to go read my
Splinterscale Naga
,
Grimfin Murloc
, and
Manablade Combine Ethereal
ideas and tell me what you think of them.
Note that the last two were never really fleshed out.
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