This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
Questions for a Catholic
Return to board index
Post by
Queggy
Why is God allowing humans to destroy his own creation?
Free will and the fact that it will all be fixed up again after Armageddon.
Post by
Queggy
Whenever God decides. There are a few prophesies mentioned that will tell us that it is getting near, but no one knows the exact day.
Post by
129077
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
]I see... after Christ completed his work, the catholic church finished it for him. Very nice. I knew his teachings and the people he told to teach weren't enough.
Continuing his work, yes. I don't think we're quite finished yet :)
and
I doesn't say that he has to have children; it sets requirements for
if
he has children.
actually, it says He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respectAnd here is the Bible after the catholics fixed it:He must manage his own
family
stuff well and see that his children (optional) obey him with proper respect, unless he doesn't have any, and that's cool too.Of course, that all came later, it's the stuff we couple
with
the Bible, for when the word of God isn't clear enough. Sometimes, God fails, so we step in and pick up the mess he makes. Silly God. He should listen to the pope too, I suppose.
Going from "He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect" to "He has to have children" is a logical fallacy. And no our bible says "He must manage his own household well, keeping his children submissive and respectful in every way."
What is amazing is
THIS
. It literally explains that taking care of a family is necessary to taking care of the church. I suppose the catholic tradition is to skip that verse. That tradition was probably picked up a few hundred years after Jesus died, when the pope was king of God.
It's like... so very clear. I don't get how you can NOT understand it.
Another logical fallacy.
"If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?" does not mean you have to to have a family to take care of the Church. All it says is that "if you can't take care of the your family, you can't take care of the church."
I find it funny that you're saying we're wrong in interpreting the bible, then a couple lines down you do it yourself.
And I have no idea what the conversation was supposed to illustrate, except maybe you have a thing against Pepsi.
Why is God allowing humans to destroy his own creation?
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Why is God allowing humans to destroy his own creation?
Because he gave creation to us for us to be master over. Whether we choose to abuse it or not, it's still a gift.
And when is Armageddon?
No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
So God is going to let the whole world go to !@#$ until he decides to destroy it and rebuild it instead of stopping it happen in the first place?
What's better, people who choose to love and serve God, or people who have it mindlessly instilled in them?
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Do you think the Christianization of Scandinavia was influenced by the Crusades?
No, at least not fully. The Christianization of Scandinavia had already been in progress since as early as the 8th and 9th centuries. The main reason it took so long is that most of the leaders and their people were hard set in their pagan beliefs and took several hundred years to begin to come around.
One of the few things i have questioned about Jesus.
If he was born in a Middle Eastern area, why is he Caucasian?
He wasn't Caucasian, he was completely Jewish. If you're asking why is is depicted as Caucasian, it's just because people tend to think of Christ looking like themselves:
Black
,
Asian
, etc.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
I'd say people who choose to love God.
Its unfair for someone to be forced into worshiping or following a religion.
Exactly, so if God is to give us the choice to love him, he must also necessarily give us the choice not to love him. So, wouldn't it be a greater travesty for God to go back on his word than letting us choose to mess things up?
Post by
TheMediator
What is amazing is
THIS
. It literally explains that taking care of a family is necessary to taking care of the church. I suppose the catholic tradition is to skip that verse. That tradition was probably picked up a few hundred years after Jesus died, when the pope was king of God.
It's like... so very clear. I don't get how you can NOT understand it.
It would be like this:
Me: I want you to have a glass of orange juice with breakfast, because it is healthy.
Daughter pours herself a glass of Pepsi.
Me: I thought I told you to drink orange juice. It's for your health.
Daughter: I did. Right after you said orange juice, I replaced it with a traditional Pepsi, which is what I drink for breakfast from now on.
Me: But your being disobedient.
Daughter: Did you tell me to drink orange juice?
Me: Yes.
Daughter: Well, I'm doing what you said, because the verb in the sentence is 'drink', which I am doing, so I'm following your directions.
Me: That's pretty clever, but your still not following my directions. I told you to drink orange juice specifically.
Daughter: But you meant Pepsi.
Me: No, I meant orange juice.
Daughter: You are just out of touch with the times.
Me: No, orange juice is as healthy as it ever was, and if you continue to drink pepsi, you are going to become unhealthy.
Daughter: No I'm not! My friend appointed my other friend as 'health inspector' under you, and she told me I have to drink Pepsi.
Me: You can't appoint people to tell you what to do instead of me.
Daughter: I didn't, my friend did.
Me: It doesn't matter. Even if you friend did have the 'say' in this house, she would still be wrong for telling you to drink pepsi.
Daughter: Well, I'm going to split the house into two areas, one for your law, and one for my tradition. I'll drink half a glass of orange juice in one area, and a half a glass of Pepsi in the other half.
Me: Can't you just do what I tell you?
Daughter: Your directions are very incomplete. They don't tell me what I should drink in the other half of the house.
Me: There is only one house.
Daughter: There used to be, but remember, I divided it.
Me: You can't divide my house.
Daughter: I just did.
Me: The fact remains that the house is still just one house.
Daughter: I'm going to drink Pepsi.
Me: Drink orange juice.
Daughter: I can't actually hear you.
Me: Drink orange juice.
Daughter: What if I already have?
Me: When?
Daughter: I can't remember, but I'm sure I've had orange juice before.
Me: Do you really think that is going to work? Why don't you just drink your orange juice before you're late for school?
Daughter: OK!
Daughter pours another glass of Pepsi.
Me: What are you doing?
Daughter: Well, as long as I'm not ever late for school, I don't need to drink orange juice.
Me: What?
Daughter: You said "Why don't you just drink your orange juice before you're late for school". So, as long as I'm not late, I'm being obedient.
Me: You can do whatever you want, but you will suffer the consequences.
Daughter: Not if I tell my friend I drank Pepsi.
Me: What?
Daughter: Yeah, as long as I tell my friend I drank Pepsi, everything will be ok in the end.
Me: I don't get it.
Daughter: We have this thing where we confess to eachother-
Me Interrupting: Listen, Pepsi is bad for you and will make you unhealthy. Don't drink it.
Daughter continues drinking Pepsi.
Daughter: Guess I'll have to tell my friend about that one.
Me: You completely miss the point.
Daughter: No I got it, I just added to it to make it more complete. The world is better for it.
Me: Better for not obeying?
Daughter: I am obeying, I'm just obeying MORE stuff.
Making yourself out to be god, that's pretty ballsy.
The main reason it took so long is that most of the leaders and their people were hard set in their pagan beliefs and took several hundred years to begin to come around.
So, if they resist your religion, you push it on them harder, because obviously they're wrong for not worshiping you... erm, I mean, worshiping your god.
Post by
327953
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
312559
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
So if they resist your religion, you push it on them harder, because obviously they're
wrong
in error for not worshiping
you... erm, I mean, worshiping your
God.
More or less, yes. If you found the road to perfect happiness wouldn't you try your hardest to get everyone on the road too? I obviously can't take away people's free will, but I can be persistent.
Why do Catholics act so pure compared to other religions?
Not sure what you're getting at, because you seem to be using pure in a derogatory way. Could you rephrase the question?
My questions are do you have any proof that god exists?
I detailed 6 of them
here
.
Or that Jesus was God's son?
That's an article of faith. Also Jesus said it himself, so either it's true or he's a blatant liar.
How do people know that the people who wrote the bible didn't make it up?
Article of faith. And there is historical evidence that Jesus lived and died, so you can't deny it totally.
Why hasn't God shown himself to us and if he can't why couldn't he send angels to prove his existence?
First of all, God doesn't owe you or anyone else anything. So demanding that he reveal himself is just silly. Secondly I'll quote two verses:
"Then, please, Father!" the rich man begged Abraham. "Send Lazarus to my five brothers. He can warn them so they won't come to this place of pain!"
"They have Moses and the prophets in the Bible," Abraham responded. "Your brothers should listen to their words."
"No, Father Abraham!" the rich man cried out. "If someone from the dead visits my brothers, they will turn back to God!"
"If they don't hear the words of Moses or the prophets," Abraham said, "how will they be convinced if someone rose from the dead?"
Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe
Also, I noticed a lot of people not capitalizing Jesus and God, both of which are proper nouns. If you're gonna make a point about not believing in either, do so without silly grammatical mistakes please. I just makes you look silly :P
Post by
TheMediator
More or less, yes. If you found the road to perfect happiness wouldn't you try your hardest to get everyone on the road too? I obviously can't take away people's free will, but I can be persistent.
Not at the cost of what effectively makes them who they are. Changing a person so radically inflicts major psychic damage to them. I don't believe that the ends justifies the means, because you don't always reach the end that you intend to, so if one truly cares about others one would see that one must treat the means as an end, and if that end involves shattering someone's reality, then I think one must find another mean to reach their intended end.
And really, how many Christians who are alive are "perfectly happy"? I don't mean content, I mean happy, how many Christians out there are truly happy?
"If they don't hear the words of Moses or the prophets," Abraham said, "how will they be convinced if someone rose from the dead?"
I find it hilarious that you posted this quote. That's a total fail on Abraham's part if he thinks that someone wouldn't trust a fact because they wouldn't trust hearsay.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
More or less, yes. If you found the road to perfect happiness wouldn't you try your hardest to get everyone on the road too? I obviously can't take away people's free will, but I can be persistent.
Not at the cost of what effectively makes them who they are. Changing a person so radically inflicts major psychic damage to them. I don't believe that the ends justifies the means, because you don't always reach the end that you intend to, so if one truly cares about others one would see that one must treat the means as an end, and if that end involves shattering someone's reality, then I think one must find another mean to reach their intended end.
The only problem with your view is that if someone converts, it's them doing the changing, not me. If their reality is shattered, they're the one's doing it; no one can make someone else want something, the desire originates in the person himself.
And really, how many Christians who are alive are "perfectly happy"? I don't mean content, I mean happy, how many Christians out there are truly happy?
Road to perfect happiness =/= perfect happiness
I never said Christians were perfectly happy; in fact quite the opposite is true. perfect happiness is impossible to obtain in the world.
"If they don't hear the words of Moses or the prophets," Abraham said, "how will they be convinced if someone rose from the dead?"
I find it hilarious that you posted this quote. That's a total fail on Abraham's part if he thinks that someone wouldn't trust a fact because they wouldn't trust hearsay.
It's true and it happens with alarming frequency in the world today.
Example: Pope (oh no! he's using a pope as an example) Paul VI wrote the encyclical
Humanae Vitae
in 1968. In it he made 4 predictions that he said would happen if contraceptives continued to be used. Everyone ridiculed him at the time, but now that all four have come to pass, no one will admit he was right about contraceptives; instead they try to make excuses and say something else caused it.
Post by
MyTie
Making yourself out to be god, that's pretty ballsy.
Illustrating disobedience using myself and my daughter is a far cry from sporting a white robe and ordering people to worship me. I doubt that you failed to realize this, you just found an opportunity to criticise me and couldn't pass it up.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
...sporting a white robe and ordering people to worship me.
I realize you have a gripe against Catholicism. I respect that. But throwing around blatant lies in order to make an emotional point--that I cannot respect.
If you're not going to be civil, I'd rather you not post here.
Post by
264711
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
...sporting a white robe and ordering people to worship me.
I realize you have a gripe against Catholicism. I respect that. But throwing around blatant lies in order to make an emotional point--that I cannot respect.
If you're not going to be civil, I'd rather you not post here.
This was not intended to be a reference to the pope. I was telling Themediator that I am not pretending to be God when I made the illustration. That was all I was trying to communicate.
But you are right that I have a gripe with Catholicism. But again, that had nothing to do with my earlier post.
Post by
Patty
How can you say that the Pope was appointed by 'God'? It seems to me like the Tsars of Russia, just in Catholisism.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
1) Why do we not stone our daughters for insolence?
2) Why did Job's wife look back (and why ffs a pillar of salt?)?
3) How comfortable, on a scale from 1 to 10 (10 being the comfort of heaven, 1 being the torment of hell), was Jonah in the belly of the whale?
4) Concerning the events in Catholic Spain in the 15th-16th centuries (Comments above on conversion standing) how does one justify torture and starvation to be the acts of the tortured and starved?
The only problem with your view is that if someone converts, it's them doing the changing, not me. If their reality is shattered, they're the one's doing it; no one can make someone else want something, the desire originates in the person himself.
5) In closing, what did Humanae Vitae predict successfully? (Not trying to be an ass, would like to know)
1) Because with Jesus with came a new law: love your neighbor as yourself; do unto others as you would have them do unto you; and love your enemy. The end/point/purpose of the Old Law wasn't to stone people (anyone who says so doesn't understand the the Old Testament), it was to erase vice. The New Law takes that and brings it to a whole new level; instead of erasing vice we're promoting virtue. Both have the same end, they are just different ways of doing it.
2) I can't answer for her. Maybe she was regretting having to leave the "high life" behind. I don't know. The common reason is that she was "worldly" and still attached.
Salt is symbolic because in small quantities it is great and can make eating much more pleasurable (especially in college), but a whole pillar of it is just ewww. I think that represents worldly pleasures; they're good and have their time and place, but if all you have is salt and no food to put it on, the salt looses its value.
3)Well, being that heaven and hell and infinitely apart, I don't think that scale works. But I would say ~5.5.
4) I'm no expert on the Spanish Inquisition (NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!), but I do know that all thought it was initiated by the Pope (Sixtus the somethingorother) it was not directly overseen by him. Torquemada I believe was in charge for most of the time. Once reports of abuse reached Rome, the Pope tried to reform it, but it was hard without the support of the monarchs (who were the real muscle behind it).
That all being said, the point of the Inquisition was not conversion. It was to root out dissenters and either make them recant publicly or be excommunicated. The Church did not advocate the abuses that came later.
5)Off the top of my head a) decrease in sexual morality and an increase in infidelity (ie divorces) b) A decline in respect for women as persons and an increase in an objectification of them c) and increase in abuse of power (eg forced abortions in china) d) the notion that people have complete dominion over their own bodies, extending to unborn children as well.
I probably just made him turn over in his grave with that mishmash lol :P but that's the gist of it.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
How can you say that the Pope was appointed by 'God'? It seems to me like the Tsars of Russia, just in Catholicism.
Pretty every monarchy in history has claimed to be based in Divine Right, not just Russia.
If the Catholic Church really is Christ's Church it would only make sense that he would make sure the Pope is someone whom he wants. So in questioning the latter, you are necessarily questioning the former.
Post Reply
This topic is locked. You cannot post a reply.