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Post by
Adamsm
Yeah would be nice to see a return of class quest lines and the like....but we both know that Blizzard will never go that way again. After all, since any of the old expacs are 'ignored' once they are over, and it's just suppose to be a focus on the new shiny thing, what can you do. It's why Battle irritates me; there is good ground work for new stories, but all we are getting are rehashes of what came before. I remember complaining about the separate starting areas because I wanted to see the continuation of the Zandalar stuff...yeah no, I've changed my mind because over all it's the exact same thing the Alliance is doing, except you know, race swapped /sigh
Post by
Rankkor
I have to disagree with you a bit, Rank. Varian was, from an overall standpoint, a much more significant and important figure and one of the cornerstones of the WoW universe, and he deserved to go out the way he did. Vol'jin was important, but he's not a match for Varian. I'd expect a similar grand send-off for Thrall, but not for Tyrande.
Remember, Vol'jin's story really isn't done, while Varian's is.
True, but dude, not even a tiny plaque at the foot of a bench? Unimportant or not, he was still THE WARCHIEF of the horde, not a random grunt. Was it too much to ask to have at least a tiny little plaque on sen'jin village? I'm not even asking for a tribute as large and grandiose as Varian's, but Something > Nothing.
And of course, if Vol'jin wasn't as important as Varian, that too is the writer's fault for almost criminally underusing him throughout the game. This is one of the founding fathers of the horde, and as Adamsm pointed out, his biggest accomplishment IN THE GAME, is surviving an assassination attempt.......... offscreen.
When he's finally given a chance to shine, he just gets shoved in the closet for an entire expansion, and when finally allowed to come out, its to off him.
Even if his story isn't completely over, his contributions to the plot will be minimal at best. I mean, technically speaking Obi Wan's story didn't end after A New Hope, but you can count on one hand how many times he appears in Episodes 5 and 6. That's basically Vol'jin's role now. He's the obi wan of wow. Except unlike Obi Wan who got his time to shine during the clone wars, Vol'jin wasn't allowed to do anything.
UGH.
In other news, hey hey, I have Before the Storm.
Time to brace myself for some pain.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##
Post by
Stabhorn
Brace hard, Rank, the book's title is a lie. The storm is in those pages.
Post by
Rankkor
So, page 60 of the book so far. Earlier chapters are essentially novelizations of the epilogue cinematics for the horde and alliance we see after we clear argus (the one where Mathias Shaw delivers Anduin a piece of Azerite, and the one where Galliwyx proposes his plans to sylvanas during the victory feast).
Except that in the book, the scenes are longer, more elaborate, with more dialog, and more stuff explained, and frankly, I wish the game cutscenes had been as long and elaborate as this >_>
I swear, I have no idea why people bash Golden's writing so much. I can get that you don't like the plot, but the writing in the book has been superb so far, and Golden still has that thing I like about her so much: She gets inside the mind of the character whose point of view we're looking at.
To use Knaak as an example, his books are always from HIS point of view. He views the alliance races (Specially humans) as paragons of perfection, he goes out of his way to describe all human male characters as hunk beefcakes even the straightest man would totally make an exception for, and all female human characters as impossibly beautiful goddesses. This is regardless of the character whose point of view is being followed. And then goes out of his way to describe horde races (Orcs specially) as unclean, unwashed disgusting beasts, completely lacking in hygiene, manners, civility, or beauty.
Chapters with Broxigar as the protagonist in War of the Ancients for example, would still describe orcs in these unflattering terms, and the exact same thing happened with Thura Saurfang on Stormrage (or whatever book she showed up).
But with Golden, she gets inside the mind of the characters that we're following in that specific chapter. If that character hates the horde, such as Greymane, then horde races are described in unflattering terms too. But if the character is an orc himself, such as Thrall, then we see the orcs as he does, as noble, beautiful and courageous people. Ditto for the alliance.
The point I'm getting at with this long tangent, is that thanks to Golden, I now know how Sylvanas TRULY feels about the horde in general. I've seen many times people describing her as viewing the entire horde as little more than tools to keep herself alive. The words "Arrows in her quiver" has been used several times.
But the chapters I've read so far have shown that she sees the members of the horde (both her own forsaken and the other races) as her people, and to an extent she cares for them and desires their well being. This is not conveyed through dialog with another character, but as her own internal thoughts. So unless she's into regularly lying to herself, we can assume those thoughts are honest. And I'm curious how exactly she goes from an aloof but ultimately caring leader, to
ordering the deaths of those forsaken civilians whose tombstones litter Arathi Highlands
Also, I'm glad that Greymane and Rogers intentionally attacking the horde UNPROVOKED, was not swept under the rug. Anduin apparently did reprimand and chastised them privately, though because of how necessary they are to lead the armies of the alliance, he could not afford to demote them or impose harsher punishments.
Post by
Adamsm
Except that in the book, the scenes are longer, more elaborate, with more dialog, and more stuff explained, and frankly, I wish the game cutscenes had been as long and elaborate as this >_>Yup, WoW's biggest issue for me now; I'm tired of everything being explained in the books and not in game where it should be shown.
I swear, I have no idea why people bash Golden's writing so much. I can get that you don't like the plot, but the writing in the book has been superb so far, and Golden still has that thing I like about her so much: She gets inside the mind of the character whose point of view we're looking at.Yeah if she 'likes' the character...if she doesn't, you get horrible two dimensional versions of them, where they have one personality and seem to pick up and juggle the idiot balls for fun; Tides of War with Garrosh sitting around picking his ass, the horrible writing of Kalec, the 'nameless' Sunreaver who set the bomb, the laughable sham trial in War Crimes with the one dimensional 'break Garrosh free squad' and that stupid god awful *!@#ing Ebil Me that can be defeated by Logic and the idiotic handling of the Windrunners >_<
If she likes the character? Then we get *!@# like Jesus Thrall being the only one who free poor insane Nozdormu from Timestream, whatever the hell the climax of Tides of War was suppose to be, and 'oh slick' Timewalker Elf who thought he was going to trick them all and that stupid Grom thing with Garrosh in War Crimes.
Talk about Knaak's characterizations, but at least all of the characters have something going for them rather than be living plot points to move the ball along for whatever super hero Golden wants to write. Dawn of the Aspects shows that well...mind, Dawn only has 10 characters total, but he did them well.
Post by
Rankkor
Yeah if she 'likes' the character...if she doesn't, you get horrible two dimensional versions of them
Not really. I've seen the "get inside their head" treatment of EVERY CHARACTER she's written. On every book.
Be it characters NOBODY likes, such as Gul'dan, or Ner'zhul (Whom she somehow made likable, or at least sympathetic in Rise of the Horde. Something I thought flat out impossible) or characters that are more divisive, with their fans and haters, like Sylvanas, or Varian, or yes, Garrosh.
Dude, what the characters DO is not up to her. She (and all the other writers hired by blizzard for that matter) are not given creative license to dictate the terms of the plot.
If she's told "Write a book where this character stabs that character" then that's what she does. You can't blame her for X stabbing Y, that's what she was told to do, her only job was to put it into words. Knaak was not responsible for hooking up Rhonin with Vereesa, that was part of the plot handed down to him, and it was simply his job to put that into words. Despite how the two characters have about as much chemistry together as oil and water. Same deal with Jaina's terrible romance with Kalec.
However, the "get you to see inside their head" thing is something that only Golden does. Knaak superimposes HIS opinion on the characters you're reading. Which is why even the scenes narrated from the point of view of orc characters like Brox or Thura still depict the orcs in VERY unflattering terms.
And please, "super hero golden wants to write"? Because Knaak never creates overidealized mary sues. There's a reason Rhonin is so loathed dude.
Post by
morginar
Yeah if she 'likes' the character...if she doesn't, you get horrible two dimensional versions of them
Not really. I've seen the "get inside their head" treatment of EVERY CHARACTER she's written. On every book.
Ironic is it not then, that her biggest problem is characterization. How she writes character doesn't fit with what we know of them, she doesn't expand. She rewrites. Sylvanas and the forsaken got a large festering wound from the book. Keep the quest "Lordaeron" from silverpine in mind as you continiue on, where she divulges Sylvanas and the forsaken.
Be it characters NOBODY likes, such as Gul'dan, or Ner'zhul (Whom she somehow made likable, or at least sympathetic in Rise of the Horde. Something I thought flat out impossible) or characters that are more divisive, with their fans and haters, like Sylvanas, or Varian, or yes, Garrosh. An admirable thing to do, however. If what she does isn't true to the characters, and just rewrites it for her own bias... Is it no wonder people are upset at her, irrationally so. As you mention.
Dude, what the characters DO is not up to her. She (and all the other writers hired by blizzard for that matter) are not given creative license to dictate the terms of the plot. She is a employee of the company, a member of the writing staff, she has a say on how things are to be. And we don't know the full level of libery of the writing, but the genn tail thing, does imply it's not as close as one might think. Perhaps just skeleton plot, as in the climax and what characters are in, maybe a few events. The characterization and the minor looks into the forsaken narrative. (both going against what we have had for 14 years.) Are up to her. Atleast, a good portion of it.
If she's told "Write a book where this character stabs that character" then that's what she does. You can't blame her for X stabbing Y, that's what she was told to do, her only job was to put it into words. Knaak was not responsible for hooking up Rhonin with Vereesa, that was part of the plot handed down to him, and it was simply his job to put that into words. Despite how the two characters have about as much chemistry together as oil and water. Same deal with Jaina's terrible romance with Kalec. In the scenario of x stabs y. You can do it in many a way. As you're in the mind of the characters. The stabbing can be due to a scheme, it might be justified or it might be due to paranoia. I don't blame in particular that the stabbing happened, I put that at the writing staff. But the character behind it and the frame of mind. I can.
However, the "get you to see inside their head" thing is something that only Golden does. Knaak superimposes HIS opinion on the characters you're reading. Which is why even the scenes narrated from the point of view of orc characters like Brox or Thura still depict the orcs in VERY unflattering terms. In a recent interwiev in E3 I believe, she divulged that she used a theatrical method of writing characters. It is the "What would I do" Method, in a manner of speaking, Golden makes all characters self inserts. It's used for acting, and good to use there. But writing is a different beast. I'm sure you have heard of the hotly depated "proud woman" thought of Sylvans? That's not something Sylvanas would think as she didn't become a warchief of her own, but by Vol'jin, and sylvanas hasn't at any point before, cared about gender, she comes from a place of equality. And was ranger general and banshee queen before being warchief. Why she would put any pride in it... Seems more like something that would fit Golden herself.
Knaak makes abominations. Goldens infects characters. What is worse, plague or cholera?
And please, "super hero golden wants to write"? Because Knaak never creates overidealized mary sues. There's a reason Rhonin is so loathed dude. He means Anduin. Goldens favorite character. And yes. Knaak writes sues. As does Golden. Can we both agree both are bad, very very bad.
In the novel there is a feature unique to anduin, the divine bell made him sense wrong. And thus he, himself is now unable to do wrong. This makes him a sue, in morality. Boyscout sue. It's... bad fanfic tier, however it might be blizzard themselves. As this wouldn't be the first time bad fanfic enters the canon, see Med'an.
Edit: I don't think we have debated each other in quite a while Rank. Don't take this as malice, but as a discussion of passionate fans.
Post by
Rankkor
I don't think we have debated each other in quite a while Rank. Don't take this as malice
I don't. Its okay to disagree on things. Matter of fact, the world would be a way BORING place if we all thought the same, and felt the same about everything. Like a creppy borg hive-mind.
*
shudder
*
She is a employee of the company, a member of the writing staff, she has a say on how things are to be.
Now. She's an employee of the company now, and essentially replaced Kosak as the lead quest writer NOW. That's a very recent development. Up until that point, she was just another freelance writer hired by blizzard to write books. No more, no less. And with no more authority to dictate where the plot goes than any of the other half-dozen freelancers hired by blizzard to pen their books, like Knaak, Michael Stackpole, Aaron Rosenberg, and many others.
And yet the tendency to blame her for where the plot goes is much MUCH older than Before the Storm. Something I've never seen happen for any other writer, even though they, much like golden, have no actual say in the direction the plot goes. They are (were in the case of golden) freelancers, hired to pen a story, given a general plot summary of what the actual writing team at blizzard wanted to happen, and given the task to put that into words.
Ironic is it not then, that her biggest problem is characterization. How she writes character doesn't fit with what we know of them
And I'd have a problem with that, if the characters remained consistent in the game itself. Instead, you have Garrosh defenestrating one of his generals for acting dishonorably by bombing a town full of civilians, only to bomb a town full of civilians himself. You have Jaina delivering an passionate speech about how important it is to remain neutral, then leading an ethnic purge of her own city at the slight hint of foul play. You have Taran Zhu defending the other members of the horde when confronting garrosh, only to lump us all together as the ones responsible for the devastation of the Vale of Eternal Blossoms, You have Vereesa valiantly leading an expedition to defend Quel'thalas from the Amani during cataclysm, only to butcher her own people without a hint of remorse or regret during the purge of dalaran. You have Galliwyx acting like the biggest jerkass ever to his own people, only to make a heel-face turn during the goblin starter zone. You have Tyrande acting diplomatic and friendly to horde players during one half of legion, then acting like a xenophobic ass on the other. There's Vol'jin acting diplomatic and friendly to the alliance in cataclysm, then openly mocking them when they're trying to help him in MoP. etc etc etc. You get the point, but I could go on and on and on about characters whose characterization flips more than a poorly cooked hamburger on a faulty grill.
Consistency may as well be ancient latin on Azeroth. This is not Golden's fault, yet everyone acts as if it is.
If you want an example of a bad baaaaaaaaad freelance writer, who did a colossal screw up job at penning an expanded universe book for a beloved franchise, look no further than William Dietz.
The Mass Effect series is easily the finest RPG I've ever played in my life. Bar none. And like many good franchises, it has a few books connecting the games in the franchise (Unlike warcraft however, these books are entirely optional. They serve to give additional info, but not crucial plot details that are better seen in the actual games). These books were normally written by the Lead Writer of the games themselves, Drew Karpyshyn, but when it came to the fourth book in the series, Mass Effect Deception, Karpyshyn was busy writing for a different project of Bioware, and so they hired William Dietz to pen in the final book.
It was a disaster. It was so bad, the book was essentially disowned by Bioware and declared non-canon. This is without a doubt the most blatant example of bad writing in videogame history.
The author made almost zero research on the setting he was writing for, resulting in some serious continuity errors, lore discrepancies, characters that died in previous games/books showing up alive without explanation, characters who were underage in the previous book were suddenly adults in Deception (Despite Deception taking place merely six months after the last book), a character who was openly gay was made straight. A character who suffered from Autism was magically cured of it, her entire autism dismissed as "just a phase" that you apparently grow out of, the dialog was as corny as something Stephany Meyer would write, the few characters from the game that showed up in the book behaved NOTHING like how they did in the game (As mentioned above, a gay man was turned into a straight man, just to mention one example), and worse.
So much worse.
THERE is an example of a piss-poor writer. Amusingly, this same guy was hired by blizzard to write a book for Starcraft, the one detailing the backstory of Nova of all things, and he did as much of a crap job there, as he did in mass effect, and according to Funden (Whom I miss terribly U_U) he was also hired by the developers of Halo to write a novel for that franchise, and he screwed the pooch just as bad in there.
Golden's books on the other hand, are entertaining to read, properly fact-checked, adhere to what we know of the setting, and are not a chore to get through. I have very limited time to read these days, and yet despite having only been able to put a couple of hours into Before the Storm, I'm already on page 100.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##
Post by
morginar
And yet the tendency to blame her for where the plot goes is much MUCH older than Before the Storm. Something I've never seen happen for any other writer, even though they, much like golden, have no actual say in the direction the plot goes. They are (were in the case of golden) freelancers, hired to pen a story, given a general plot summary of what the actual writing team at blizzard wanted to happen, and given the task to put that into words.
Think it's because she wrote the pre-expac books I would belive. And knaak got his fair share of acid from his plotlines and characters in the novels. Like, time travel war of the ancients is something most lay on him.
As for the lack on consistency on goldens part.
The forsaken live in what's best described as 1984 I've seen few screen of. Notes of the undeads and such paint a picture that goes against everything seen the last 14 years. Like they live in undercity not lordaeron and aren't allowed to have something of their living time, and renamed. This goes against the introduction we had in the quest Lordaeron.
And calling sylvanas a elf offends her.
Golden's books on the other hand, are entertaining to read, properly fact-checked, adhere to what we know of the setting, and are not a chore to get through. I have very limited time to read these days, and yet despite having only been able to put a couple of hours into Before the Storm, I'm already on page 100. Go rank. Keep reading it.
Post by
Adamsm
Not really. I've seen the "get inside their head" treatment of EVERY CHARACTER she's written. On every book.Oh really? Where was it in Twilight of the Aspects, where was in it in Tides of War, where was it in War Crimes....oh right, no where because all three of those were badly written books that she phoned in, coasting on her laurels and not putting in effort to make them good.
If she likes a character, he'll shine. If she dislikes a character, they get distilled into nothing, such as what happened to Kalec, what happened to the Garrosh rescue squad from War Crimes, what happened to Nozdormu in Twilight of the Aspects. If you don't believe it's about the characters she likes, lets look at Twilight of the Aspects again shall we? Who get's the most focus? Thrall, Alt-Verse Blackmoore and Taretha....and seriously, what the hell was Taretha doing in that book beyond letting Golden use her pet character just because. Everyone else in Twilight? Two dimensional; the Aspects needed Thrall to do anything; he freed Nozdormu, he snapped Alexstraza out of the funk from the death of Krasus, he made Ysera pay attention, he gave Kalec the confidence he needed and he was part of the Super Saiyan beam o war to kill Chromatus. Speaking of Chromatus and the Twilight Father; Chromatus was a rape happy beast of bleh that was laughable to read, and the Twilight Father was just a plot point to move thing around. There was the start of an interesting character in the female Blue that was possibly meant to be a new love interest for Kalec...and then she did that hamfisted bull$%^& in Tides of War where she said 'nope, I just love you like a brother, but your real love is out there somewhere' *gag* And then you have the entirety of War Crimes; she could have made it better, but nope, let's just do flashback *!@# and not actually talk about what we are really doing.
Also; the Writers get an outline from Blizzard. From there, they make up the story. Yes, they need to sign off on stuff with Blizz, but they still have 90% input on what goes in to the book. So yes, when it's lazy hack writing, I'm going to call it out for the bull @#$% that it is especially because she's shown to do better.
Knaak had two personal characters....and Golden got to kill them both off. It's what infuriates me even more because when Kalec was in Dawn of the Aspects he seemed to be going back to normal, and even though Jaina had a part in it, it was much more readable then any of the Jaina/Kalec stuff from Tides or Crimes.
I understand not liking Knaak's purple prose, but at least his books, except for the Ancients Trilogy, kept me interested. Both Stormrage and Wolfheart gave good insight into the characters, and honestly, I preferred the Garrosh of Wolfheart to Tides/War Crimes except for his haminess in the Trial.
Like I said in my Illidan review; that book was dry, but it was better written then anything Golden has put out since the Shattering, and my favourite Lore book of the last 10 years is probably Shadow of the Horde because there was a great pace, a great writing style and just an all around enjoyable read. I will still admit that Lord of the Clans and Rise of the Horde are exceptional books and she did very well with them. The Shattering was good, and didn't feel like a chore to read through...but every one of her books since then? I had to force myself to keep going to finish them. She's burning out and they need to get new blood for the book writing team; I personally would love to see them go back to the writers who did the stories for the Legends manga's and employ them to write more things since a majority of them were great enjoyable reads.
Post by
Adamsm
The chance of Sylvanas being the Warchief is the same chance as Anduin taking the spot: Slim to none. None of the other Horde races would follow her.
Jesu, 5 years ago this was discussed in the Lore thread...and it's come true :P
Post by
morginar
The chance of Sylvanas being the Warchief is the same chance as Anduin taking the spot: Slim to none. None of the other Horde races would follow her.
Jesu, 5 years ago this was discussed in the Lore thread...and it's come true :P
Would be fun if it was true for alliance too. Assassinations, being treated as a doormat.
I personaly wouln't mind a collection of shorter stories in the sytle of the manga. Small little events. For npc otherwise overlooked, or just new ones.
Post by
Rankkor
Not really. I've seen the "get inside their head" treatment of EVERY CHARACTER she's written. On every book.Oh really? Where was it in Twilight of the Aspects, where was in it in Tides of War, where was it in War Crimes....
Well, I can't speak for Tides of War, or War Crimes. I skipped those two, but it was present in Twilight.
I'd have to re-read the book again to cite examples though, because its been so long since I read it that I can't remember any at the moment.
On page 130 now, and I think I'm starting to see why so many people said this book was written pretty much for the alliance players =/
The protagonists are "supposed" to be Anduin and Sylvanas. They both show on the cover, and its supposed to alternate between the points of view of both. Instead, I'm on chapter 13 now, and a whooping 10 chapters have been all about Anduin, with a meager 3 chapters being about sylvanas (Or more accurately, 2 have been about her, and 1 about Gallywix).
I'm glad/sad that they remembered Aerin. T_T She was my favorite expanded universe character. Why did she have to die? Its just like with Kethara Bloodthirst, my ultimate favorite EU character that I was hoping SO BADLY she'd make it to the game, but no, she was killed too.
The chance of Sylvanas being the Warchief is the same chance as Anduin taking the spot: Slim to none. None of the other Horde races would follow her.
Jesu, 5 years ago this was discussed in the Lore thread...and it's come true :P
Hindsight is funny like that. I remember skreeran saying a long long time ago, back when cataclysm was still new, that he was certain Zaela would never show up again. Ohhh how I wish he had been right U_U
There's something in the book that is a little confusing to me.
Anduin reacts with a mixture of surprise and confusion when he visits the headquarters of The Conclave. He's pleased to see all priests of all faiths together in one roof, but at the same time, apprehensive and concerned that when they say all priests, they mean ALL PRIESTS, including the horde.
And I'm like "ummm........... seriously nobody informed him of this?" Because the conclave was neither the first nor the only organization made of horde and alliance members fighting together for a common cause. The Cenarion Circle, and Earthen Ring have been doing it for far longer, and to them you'd have to add in legion: The reformed Silver Hand, The Hidden Path hunters, the Conclave of Priests, the Uncrowned, the council of the black harvest, the order of the broken temple, the illidari, the knights of the ebon blade, and the guardians of tirisgarde.
Why is this either surprising or indeed news at all to him?
Post by
Adamsm
but it was present in Twilight.
I'd have to re-read the book again to cite examples though, because its been so long since I read it that I can't remember any at the moment.Because unless it's Thrall, Blackmoore or Taretha, it's not there. I remember that stupid book still sadly.
Why is this either surprising or indeed news at all to him?
Because it's badly written and she didn't want to take the time to write him otherwise when he can be all 'wow, look at this, look at that, *hums What's this from NTBC*'.
Post by
morginar
Eyup. That's what I belive Adam means with that it favors Anduin.
Take a peak on the epilogue.
It's only alliance.¨
This bias might be golden alone, or in blizzard HQ too.
Post by
Rankkor
This bias might be golden alone, or in blizzard HQ too.
Ohh this I doubt.
There's many words I'd use to describe Golden, but "Alliance Biased" aint one of them. Its one of the reasons I'm so glad she FINALLY replaced Kosak as the lead quest writer, and the one glimmer of hope I have that BfA isn't going to end on Siege of Orgrimmar 2.0 Electric Boogaloo Undead Banshee Edition.
The odds are slim, but I have to maintain SOME degree of hope.......
(Besides, as much as I am certain Sylvanas isn't going to make it out alive of BfA, I've been wrong before. Multiple times even. I was certain that they were going to whack Moira with the villain stick, and it never happened, nor does it look like it ever will. And I was EVEN MORE certain that Yrel was going to die at the end of WoD and she never did.......... though considering what they did with her during the Mag'har recruitment scenario, maybe it would have been better if she had U_U)
Post by
Adamsm
Well since Battle is ripping off so much of Cata and Mists...that's a futile hope; we'll probably invade Orgrimmar yet again, only this time mow through Forsaken based bosses, ending with the city utterly devastated by the Blight because you know, if it 'works' for Undercity, may as well do it again.....or we'll find out the reason she Blighted Undercity was because N'Zoth is buried deep beneath it, and we'll be fighting Sylvanas cosplaying as Kerrigan, being the Queen of the Old Ones with a mass of Old God Corrupted Undead acting like the Zerg ending with the ruins of the Undercity being wiped out by the noble Space Faring Army of the Light.
See now that I could get behind, but we all know it'll never happen.
Post by
morginar
Not as much alliance per say. But Golden does have a bias for Anduin. Shattering was more balanced on the two perspectives. Now that she is a employee I'll assume she has more liberties. And this is what those liberties gave us.
And I rely hope that this doesn't end with another dead warchief.
If so. The horde is done. The lack of veteran characters from the RTS. Leaving only rokhan and rexxar for it. That all the original leaders are dead or thrall. The only race not to have a leader shift is the goblins and pandaren will be wonders. And the title of warchief is a joke. What reason is there to invest intrest in the horde?
Not to mention that newer characters is something lacking for the horde.
Post by
Rankkor
As I just said, while I am all but certain that she's gonna kick the bucket in BfA, I've been wrong before. More than once even.
Raise your hands all ye who thought Moira was yet another villain-in-the-making who was eventually gonna go evil and die? Come on, I know I'm not the only one who thought that.
And I rely hope that this doesn't end with another dead warchief.
If so. The horde is done. The lack of veteran characters from the RTS. Leaving only rokhan and rexxar for it.
Sad but true. Sylvanas is the only OG Horde Leader remaining. I'm not a big fan of hers, and frankly, she's my second worst option for Warchief (The worst one being Gallywix), but now that she is, I really don't want yet another warchief to die, specially when said warchief is the last founding member of the horde left.
That all the original leaders are dead or thrall. The only race not to have a leader shift is the goblins and pandaren will be wonders.
Not quite. The blood elves have had no leader shift either.
Not to mention that newer characters is something lacking for the horde.
A big problem is that newer horde characters introduced are either killed off, or go evil.
I'm still upset about what was done to Zaela. She was AWESOME in cataclysm. And then look at what they did wit her.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##
Post by
morginar
Slightly hypocritical but it'd be more pleasant to have a alliance raid. Like stormwind. Imagine having defias as a repfaction and we get to see that boat in action?
Blood elves started with a leader shift. RIP kael'thas.
I know, slightly pedantic, but he was the wc3 blood elf, and I am of the opinion that the silvermoon narrative hasn't recovered from his absence.
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