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General Lore Discussions
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Post by
Adamsm
Gotta admit, getting Ner'zhul's wife as a follower....not what you expect lol. Also, the trap quest, so many feels.
And Cho'gall waving at the screen was just pure hilarity.
Post by
Rankkor
Oh, and the entire story is completely dependent on the PC. Again.
I don't entirely mind that. Becuase if it wasn't, we'd be getting it dependant on Khadgar, seeing as Maraad dies so early.
Fixed that for you.
I'm really getting sick of the "green jesus" fad. Thrall is a minor character on this expansion. The one showing up on every zone, the one barking orders to both factions, the one taking credit for all the glory, is khadgar. Not Thrall, Khadgar.
Neither Thrall nor Maraad play any major role on this expansion at all. They're both very minor characters that show up a whooping total of twice on the whole thing. First on their starting zones, once on a second zone (Talador for Maraad, Nagrand for Thrall), and then never again for the rest of the expansion.
Yeah, Rank, my point was what
would
be focused on if we weren't the heroes, not who
is
being.
I know that's what you meant, and hence why I made the correction. If we weren't the heroes, Thrall would
not
be the one solving every problem. Khadgar would. He's the "face" of the expansion, so to speak. The one in practically every zone. The one leading both factions on draenor. Just putting that out there.
You kind of jumped the gun on me there.
U_U sorry, I'll admit the tone was not the best. I've heard the "green jesus" crap so much that whenever I even suspect someone is bringing it up I start twitching.
What I was saying is that Blizz is doing right here, because you are the important one right now and we see that with the garrison, leading the troops, and so forth.
It does feels nice to finally get the recognition we deserve instead of playing second fiddle to Maiev/Tirion/Thrall/Anduin/Khadgar respectively. We even get promoted to General at lvl 100. Too bad it doesn't come with an official title =(
Also, I am loving being referred to as 'Commander'. Really brings back fond memories of Red Alert.
Oh, Tanya...
Red Alert 2 Tanya is the best Tanya. The one in Red Alert 3 looks like a....... well......... can't say the word or I'll get in trouble, but starts with a W and ends with an E.
And being referred to as Commander brings me back more to Mass Effect personally.
Gotta admit, getting Ner'zhul's wife as a follower....not what you expect
A lot of unexpected people end up being followers. I nearly fell out of my chair when I saw a young Greatmother Geyah joining my garrison and I'm like O_O
And Cho'gall waving at the screen was just pure hilarity.
I'm still upset that they are using his deformed cataclysm model instead of an actual fat ogre model which is what he looked like.
Continuity is not a polite suggestion blizzard >_>
Post by
oneforthemoney
Red Alert 2 Tanya is the best Tanya. The one in Red Alert 3 looks like a....... well......... can't say the word or I'll get in trouble, but starts with a W and ends with an E.
Agreed. As much as I love Red Alert 3, that really stuck in my craw.
Post by
Adamsm
*sob* The Battle of Shattrah....just.....*sob*
On another note; so much for the Blood Elves being completely mana desire free, since Kaelynara Sunchaser falls off the wagon really really really hard in the Journe Mine.
Post by
matheus314
Bring me a battering ram! That closed door on Karabor won't be holding me out of it! >_<
Post by
Rankkor
*sob* The Battle of Shattrah....just.....*sob*
I like that they made one change on it from the beta. Orgrim dies a more dignified death on it. On the beta he was literally punted off the ship and dies in one hit. Now, he challenges Blackhand in single-combat, and its him along with durotan, yrel, maraad, and the player, fighting him atop the ship, and he dies when blackhand detonates one of the iron stars (meaning he dies for the same attack that maraad dies)
Still a shame that such a spectacular character had to die without having done anything at all, but at least it was a little more dignified than being punted off a ship.
On another note; so much for the Blood Elves being completely mana desire free, since Kaelynara Sunchaser falls off the wagon really really really hard in the Journe Mine.
2 Clarifications.
1: A single person isn't an indicative of a whole race. If it was, I'd judge all of humanity based on the actions of Benedictus. Or Vanessa VanCleef, or many many other evil humans on the franchise. Or judge all of the draenei based on the actions of Othaar or Nyami.
2: She didn't fell off the wagon, she was having an emo tantrum because her master as a jerk. Didn't you read her
letter
that drops when you kill her? She was the apprentice to Magister Astalor Bloodsworn. And some unspecified incident caused him to coldly dismiss her from his service and send her back to azeroth without even a letter of recommendation. So she went to the mine to soak up as much power as she could to have her revenge on him. Its
NOT
her falling off the wagon.
Bring me a battering ram! That closed door on Karabor won't be holding me out of it! >_<
Its unforgivable >=(
We can't go into the pristine temple of karabor. We can't go into the pristine Shattrath. We can't go into the pristine Auchindoun except for a very small segment of it on a dungeon.
What's the point of having all of these huge gorgeous buildings if they're just part of the background and we never get to set foot inside? D=
Post by
Sparkbolt
So I got a question. Since when were the blood elves using blood golems? I play Alliance so I think I missed that part in MoP but I was under the impression those things were bad.
Post by
Stabhorn
So I got a question. Since when were the blood elves using blood golems? I play Alliance so I think I missed that part in MoP but I was under the impression those things were bad.
After the Horde destroyed the Dark Animus in ToT, we harvested it's essence and gave it to the blood elves, maybe even directly to Lor'themar. (I don't exactly remember who.) Anyway, the blood elves were then able to start producing their own Blood Golems.
Post by
oneforthemoney
Bring me a battering ram! That closed door on Karabor won't be holding me out of it! >_<
Its unforgivable >=(
We can't go into the pristine temple of karabor. We can't go into the pristine Shattrath. We can't go into the pristine Auchindoun except for a very small segment of it on a dungeon.
What's the point of having all of these huge gorgeous buildings if they're just part of the background and we never get to set foot inside? D=
Could be they want it closed for future patches ala Black Temple or Icecrown. Wheely, what other big places do they have for future raids that we know would fit?
Post by
matheus314
Bring me a battering ram! That closed door on Karabor won't be holding me out of it! >_<
Its unforgivable >=(
We can't go into the pristine temple of karabor. We can't go into the pristine Shattrath. We can't go into the pristine Auchindoun except for a very small segment of it on a dungeon.
What's the point of having all of these huge gorgeous buildings if they're just part of the background and we never get to set foot inside? D=
Could be they want it closed for future patches ala Black Temple or Icecrown. Wheely, what other big places do they have for future raids that we know would fit?
I wonder why would that happen if it would not be to deal with something really bad that will probably happen inside those places... but since they have already been saved from the iron horde... what else could be happening there that would make we get back?
My point is, is there any kind of reason that would make them avaliable on future patches not just to be a nice place to visit and RP but a quest hub or a dungeon?
Post by
oneforthemoney
Bring me a battering ram! That closed door on Karabor won't be holding me out of it! >_<
Its unforgivable >=(
We can't go into the pristine temple of karabor. We can't go into the pristine Shattrath. We can't go into the pristine Auchindoun except for a very small segment of it on a dungeon.
What's the point of having all of these huge gorgeous buildings if they're just part of the background and we never get to set foot inside? D=
Could be they want it closed for future patches ala Black Temple or Icecrown. Wheely, what other big places do they have for future raids that we know would fit?
I wonder why would that happen if it would not be to deal with something really bad that will probably happen inside those places... but since they have already been saved from the iron horde... what else could be happening there that would make we get back?
Who knows? Maybe summoning Archimonde since he's apparently still alive in this timeline (which adds a bit to the ridiculous overpowered part of time travel) or a naaru yet again being turned into a void god.
Post by
Rankkor
*sighs*
/facepalm.
See why its hard for me to take some alliance characters seriously? Draenei act like they have a stick up their rear.
To put that screenshot in context, that's what the lead rangari says after we've dealt with Garrosh, saying that he has a hard time trusting us because our world produced monsters like garrosh............ to which I would retort to him like this:
Him: "If your world created monsters like garrosh, why should we trust you?"
Me: "Because your world produced monsters like Gul'dan, Socrethar, Nyami, Cho'gall, the adherents of rukhmar, and the sargerei. So how about you get off your high pedestal, buster?"(##RESPBREAK##)520##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##
Post by
Adamsm
Can't really blame him at all. After all, all of those you mention were touched by something that caused their corruption(except for Gul'dan)....Garrosh did it on his own.
Post by
matheus314
Him: "If your world created monsters like garrosh, why should we trust you?"
Me: "Because your world produced monsters like Gul'dan, Socrethar, Nyami, Cho'gall, the adherents of rukhmar, and the sargerei. So how about you get off your high pedestal, buster?"
Oh yeah, that would really make up for a good start of a not-harmful-at-all conversation...
Or you could take the high road and say:
"We're not all monsters like him. Just like you're not a monster like Gul'dan, Socrethar, Cho'gall, etc..."
Post by
Rankkor
Not really. Adherents of Rukhmar? those were jerks to their own people for absolutely no reason. They built a religion based on a lie, claiming to be speakers from a god that does not care about them at all, and instead using relics of a bygone era to intimidate those who don't follow their tennets, and punishing any transgression by dipping them into the blood of a dead old god to curse them for eternity.
No outside force corrupted them, they did that on their own.
And just as Gul'dan was corrupt on his own, the sargerei also chose to align with the legion, they weren't kidnapped and brainwashed. Socrethar, Nyami, and all the others willingly chose to embrace the legion and decry Velen as a fake prophet. No outside hand misled them into it.
Its why I did not mention the Iron Horde, because they were touched by something that caused their corruption (Garrosh).
But the adherents of Rukhmar and the sargerei? all of them chose their paths on their own. Just as Gul'dan could choose, so could they.
And that's not even touching the absolute monstrosity of the Ogre Empire and their utterly brutal slave regime. All of which also happened naturally on its own.
So yeah, he's not one to stand tall and haughty looking down on us when his own world has produced its own share of monsters without outsider influence at all.
Post by
Atik
Can't really blame him at all. After all, all of those you mention were touched by something that caused their corruption(except for Gul'dan)....Garrosh did it on his own.
Garrosh was touched by bad writing, if that counts.
Post by
Rankkor
Him: "If your world created monsters like garrosh, why should we trust you?"
Me: "Because your world produced monsters like Gul'dan, Socrethar, Nyami, Cho'gall, the adherents of rukhmar, and the sargerei. So how about you get off your high pedestal, buster?"
Oh yeah, that would really make up for a good start of a not-harmful-at-all conversation...
But........ but HE started it D=
/pout.
Post by
cephadex
The bit about bad writing is the only part of this conversation that I think really has validity; what it comes down to is the way Bliz wrote them, which isn't comparable to analysis of, say, real history.
That said, I know technically Archimonde and Kil'jaeden were eredar and not the current draenei, but I think when Yrel looks down her nose at Azeroth, she's not really separating the eredar from the draenei in terms of "we." Argus is too big a part of the draenei's history for them to have dismissed it as "something other than what we are," so she ought to take into account that Archimonde and Kil'jaeden succumbed to Sargeras of their own free will, so her own history produced pretty big monsters.
As for Kaelynara Sunchaser, I think this is best looked at not as literal scrutiny but on a more symbolic level. I don't think it's a coincidence that her name is so similar to Kael'thas Sunstrider's, or that her appearance is similar to his or that she was power-hungry. Astalor Bloodsworn had been one of Kael's most devoted followers; his other intensely devoted follower was Rommath, and he became very bitter and cold after Kael's betrayal. Astalor's intensely hurtful attitude in his letter to Kaelynara makes sense on a symbolic level when you think of the bitterness he might also have felt after Kael's betrayal. There was no indication of him being an arrogant and dismissive jerk in the lore otherwise.
Anyway, that aside-- from a very technical perspective, yes, it's true that it's a discrepancy in the lore that presumably all blood elves are meant to have overcome their addiction, and here's one who hasn't. But nitpicky details like that aren't uncommon as mistakes in the game or the lore, the storywriters aren't gods.
Post by
matheus314
But........ but HE started it D=
/pout.
Slow down... life is to be savored...
;)
Post by
Rankkor
But........ but HE started it D=
/pout.
Slow down... life is to be savored...
;)
Tell that to the draenei insulting my world when his is just as bad if not worse >_>
That said, I know technically Archimonde and Kil'jaeden were eredar and not the current draenei, but I think when Yrel looks down her nose at Azeroth, she's not really separating the eredar from the draenei in terms of "we." Argus is too big a part of the draenei's history for them to have dismissed it as "something other than what we are," so she ought to take into account that Archimonde and Kil'jaeden succumbed to Sargeras of their own free will, so her own history produced pretty big monsters.
I agree with all of this, but I have one small correction to make: Yrel is not the one acting "holier than thou". Its Rangari D'kaan. Yrel is actually advocating far more than any other native draenei to work with the alliance
and
the horde.
Other than that, yes, he's a jerk because he's scoffing at our world for producing a "monster" like garrosh, when his own people have produced far worse monsters. Nothing garrosh ever does will ever compare to even a shred of what Kil'jaeden or Archimonde have done.
Anyway, that aside-- from a very technical perspective, yes, it's true that it's a discrepancy in the lore that presumably all blood elves are meant to have overcome their addiction, and here's one who hasn't. But nitpicky details like that aren't uncommon as mistakes in the game or the lore, the storywriters aren't gods.
Actually blood elves haven't yet overcome their addiction, but they are not junkies anymore because they have the sunwell now, and they use that to quench their addiction instead of fel or arcane sources, which only make them
more
addicted over time. And Kaelynara wasn't falling off the wagon, she simply wanted revenge on her master who coldly dismissed her in a pretty cruel way (come on, not even a letter of recommendation? that's cruel)(##RESPBREAK##)520##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##
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