This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
General Lore Discussions
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
470415
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
That is the absolute worst piece of crap
from Blizzard
I've ever seen. So disappointed. /desk
why? D=
I loved it. Particularly because its the first time a cinematic actually advances the plot. Vanilla cinematic was just a montage of anonymous random characters running around or fighting. TBC was just Illidan delivering a monologe followed by another montage of random characters. Wrath was almost as good as this one since it showed the lich king awakening from his slumber and raising Sindragosa, along with a pretty nice flashback speech of Terenas to show the contrast to how far arthas had fallen.
Then cataclysm took a step backwards by going back to the TBC formula, its just deathwing giving a monologue and showing monumental damage to random locations.
Then MoP, while amusing, didn't really advanced the plot either, it was just a random nameless orc fighting a random nameless human (Gee, never seen
that
before) and then they're interrupted by chen who proceeds to beat them in comedic fashion. Amusing yes, but not really moving the plot at all.
Then this cinematic. It had everything. Nice action, excellent visuals, advanced the story, showed an event. It wasn't a random montage as they always did before. It was an actual cutscene rendered in gorgeous quality.
Out of simple curiosity, why didn't you liked it? U_U
Slightly disapointed by how easy Manoroth was killed...
Why? he was killed in a single hit just like in Warcraft 3. Even ten years later, Mannoroth is
STILL
Grom's BIIIIIIIIIAAAAAAACH!!!!!! =P
The cinematic however, confirms that this alternate timeline was VERY different from our own even before Garrosh stepped in.
On the original one, the skin of the orcs was already turning green by the time they did the whole blood pact. By the time the blood pact was made, Karabor was already taken, Auchindoun was already taken, Draenei civilization in general had long fallen and their final bastion was Shattrath.
Not only that, elements had abandoned the shaman already, and they in turn had all long since became warlocks, and the planet was already a barren wasteland. Hellfire Peninsula is described by durotan as arid and barren in the very same chapter when Grom drinks the blood.
But here, not only have the draenei not fallen yet, the planet is still lush, the elements still respond to the orcs, which in turn led to warlock practices not being spread to any clans (other than Gul'dan and his associates) and several other differences that I highlighted on a spoiler box a few pages back.
Post by
oneforthemoney
However, as seen in Hakkar the Houndmaster, if they are killed in an alternate past they apparently die in the 'prime' one as well, should the past be rewritten.
Right but that was because the 'prime' time line was re-written by the new War of the Ancients; he died either way, just 10 thousand years earlier then he did the first time. Which means whatever demonic race he was, it wasn't a Dreadlord.
Yeah, but I meant we might be seeing him again in Warlords should Blizzard choose to release further expansions set in this Draenor.
Post by
Rankkor
However, as seen in Hakkar the Houndmaster, if they are killed in an alternate past they apparently die in the 'prime' one as well, should the past be rewritten.
Right but that was because the 'prime' time line was re-written by the new War of the Ancients; he died either way, just 10 thousand years earlier then he did the first time. Which means whatever demonic race he was, it wasn't a Dreadlord.
Yeah, but I meant we might be seeing him again in Warlords
should Blizzard choose to release further expansions set in this Draenor
.
God I hope not :S
Don't get me wrong, I've
loved
to explore draenor on the beta, its so nice to see how the planet was before it became outland and all that, but on the whole, I'm not that big a fan of time-traveling shenanigans being the main plot. As nice as this "bonding exercise" is (And that's basically what this is, a way for alliance and horde to hold hands and dance cumbaya) I want future expansions to be set on our timeline.
Post by
Adamsm
Maybe for you, but I just found it atrocious. It wasn't atmospheric and without a frame of reference or some context it makes absolutely no sense. I had to explain the entire thing to my dad because he had
no
idea what the cinematic was even about.
It's just. Ugh. Didn't like it.
/shrug Dunno, seemed fairly obvious what it was about, especially after the Gul'dan and the Stranger comic which came out earlier this week.
Post by
oneforthemoney
However, as seen in Hakkar the Houndmaster, if they are killed in an alternate past they apparently die in the 'prime' one as well, should the past be rewritten.
Right but that was because the 'prime' time line was re-written by the new War of the Ancients; he died either way, just 10 thousand years earlier then he did the first time. Which means whatever demonic race he was, it wasn't a Dreadlord.
Yeah, but I meant we might be seeing him again in Warlords
should Blizzard choose to release further expansions set in this Draenor
.
God I hope not :S
Don't get me wrong, I've
loved
to explore draenor on the beta, its so nice to see how the planet was before it became outland and all that, but on the whole, I'm not that big a fan of time-traveling shenanigans being the main plot. As nice as this "bonding exercise" is (And that's basically what this is, a way for alliance and horde to hold hands and dance cumbaya) I want future expansions to be set on our timeline.
They really have no
business
reason not to. And with us being explicitly trapped on Draenor for the expansion, it's either that or end WoW. Or new worlds I suppose, but it would really be easier for them just to bring out some new continents.
Post by
Adamsm
We've still got lots of enemies left in the main time line though; three more Old Gods and their forces, the Legion is still running around out there somewhere, who knows how many of the Iron Horde are going to survive at the end of expac to continue to cause problems.
There are two purposes here: Take down the Iron Horde and take back the Dark Portal. Once both of those are done, there isn't really a reason to remain on Alternate Draenor.
Post by
oneforthemoney
We've still got lots of enemies left in the main time line though; three more Old Gods and their forces, the Legion is still running around out there somewhere, who knows how many of the Iron Horde are going to survive at the end of expac to continue to cause problems.
There are two purposes here: Take down the Iron Horde and take back the Dark Portal. Once both of those are done, there isn't really a reason to remain on Alternate Draenor.
Didn't we have to close it once we were through to prevent further shenanigans? And really, the reason would be is that Blizzard has used up all their villains with back story and real presence for players. Hence why we're getting the Horde 2.0. I think they've realized they've run out of things they want to do with Azeroth, or at least content for full expansions, so they brought out a new world to play in to free them from constraints while keeping the brand.
Post by
Morec0
Really, all of Warlords of Draenor is kinda wonky, imo, because of time travel.
But that's all meaningless because of that FREAKIN' WARCRAFT THREE REFERENCE IN THE CINEMATIC! THAT WAS BEYOND BADASS!
Post by
Rankkor
They really have no
business
reason not to. And with us being
explicitly trapped
on Draenor for the expansion, it's either that or end WoW. Or new worlds I suppose, but it would really be easier for them just to bring out some new continents.
Explicitly trapped at the beginning. I highly doubt that's gonna be the case by the end of the expansion.
Post by
470415
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Didn't we have to close it once we were through to prevent further shenanigans? And really, the reason would be is that Blizzard has used up all their villains with back story and real presence for players. Hence why we're getting the Horde 2.0. I think they've realized they've run out of things they want to do with Azeroth, or at least content for full expansions, so they brought out a new world to play in to free them from constraints while keeping the brand.
We closed it yes but then it's a matter of trying to get back home, which does occur when we are able to open our own portals home But we haven't come even close to running out of villains to take down. I really don't think we'll be seeing an further Alternate time line exploration after this is done, since there is still a big wide Deep Dark out there to explore and investigate.
Yeah but Hyper, you just said your father has played all three RTS games...so how does he not recognize Grom and Gul'dan, and Mannoroth; I mean it's more or less a replay at a different time for the death of the Big M. I dunno, I see Gul'dan, I see Grom and I see a chalice full of green glowing liquid...first thing that pops in my mind is the Demon Blood ceremony, since that is the most iconic orc history point out there. The fact that Garrosh was responsible for stopping it and 'freeing' the orcs from the future enslavement is frankly, fairly awesome. Seeing some of the new technology of the Iron Horde is also cool..
But really, the cinematic told you when it was: 35 years ago. And 35 years ago in-game time, the orcs took their steps towards destroying the Draenei completely and starting in on Azeroth.
I respect that you dislike it, but honestly...even with a passing idea of Lore, we've heard what is happening in the next expac, so with that, the cinematic makes just as much sense as all of the rest of them and is the teaser for the world we are about to dive head first into.
Post by
Rankkor
This actually illustrates my problem with this cinematic perfectly: it requires way too much context to understand what's going on. This scene is not particularly iconic.
Neither are these characters
, not like the Lich King was, anyway.
Ohh I beg to differ. Grom and Gul'dan are among the biggest names in the game. Whether one loves them, or hates them, or loves to hate them, they are among the most well known names for anyone who's played warcraft 2 and 3. Just as iconic as the Lich King himself.
If this cinematic requires me, or anyone else, to have read comics or other promotional material beforehand to capture the idea of the expansion
it's not doing its job.
But.... the one in WOTLK was the same. If you didn't played warcraft 3, nor read Rise of the Lich King, you'd have no idea who the lich king was. He had zero introduction in vanilla or TBC. A few name-drops maybe, but that's about it. Someone who's never played wow in his life watching the WOTLK cinematic will see a random guy in a spectacularly cool armor raising a zombie dragon. Cool yes, but not much context either.
I can agree with you that without previous knowledge of the lore, a lot of people won't really understand what just happened there. For all they know, 2 orcs just got into a squabble, a demon poped out of nowhere, and he was slain in an incredibly awesome way, and that's about it. But for anyone who follows the story, the cutscene gets the plot moving, and allows us to see a rather iconic event in a really nice way.
I guess we just have different expectations of what the cinematic should be about. To me, the cinematic should not be a trailer. Trailers are the ones that should be made of montages, and set the stage, give a tone or feel or vibe of what the story is gonna be about. A cinematic should be to narrate a part of the story.
That's what all the cinematics did in Warcraft 3, that's what they did in Starcraft 1 and 2, that's what they do in Diablo 1 2 and 3, and that's what this one just did for WoD for the first time in wow's history.
For a general feeling of what the expansion is about, that's what the trailers should be. And the promotional material.
I can only hope (slim as it is) that the final cinematic of WoD is also CGI like this one, instead of an in-game cutscene like the ones we've had in WOTLK/Cata/MoP. Those are cool, but true CGI is even cooler.
Like adamsm said, I respect that you didn't liked it, but to me, it really was pretty amazing precisely because it wasn't a random montage, it actually told a story.(##RESPBREAK##)520##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##
Post by
Monday
Ohh I beg to differ. Grom and Gul'dan are among the biggest names in the game. Whether one loves them, or hates them, or loves to hate them, they are among the most well known names for anyone who's played warcraft 2 and 3. Just as iconic as the Lich King himself.
I would disagree, purely for the fact that W3 was FAR more popular than W2. For a lot of people who started playing in W3, Illidan, Thrall and Arthas are their iconic characters, not Gul'dan or Ner'zhul or Grom. Grom was important in W3, but he ultimately played second fiddle to Thrall.
Post by
470415
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
/shrug Well there you go; I hated the Wrath trailer because of the fact that 'nothing' happened in it. I enjoyed the others because they were about what were going into, but Wrath was just bleh to me.
To each their own.
Post by
Rankkor
I'm not ripping on any of you for liking it, that's your opinion. I just don't like that it isn't self-contained.
Its ok hyper :P we're not ripping on you either for disliking it, everyone has their own opinion, and when it comes to matters of subjective taste, nobody is really "in the right" or "in the wrong". We're all just explaining why we like/dislike it is all.
:)
That's what all the cinematics did in Warcraft 3, that's what they did in Starcraft 1 and 2, that's what they do in Diablo 1 2 and 3, and that's what this one just did for WoD for the first time in wow's history.
The difference between the cinematics that kick off WoW expansions and the cinematics you're referring to is the fact that the cinematics for WoW have had a different context.
You're right. And I
hated
it. I hated that the cinematics had basically no story on them at all, they were glorified trailers, with random scenes and random people that have nothing to do with the story. Like I said, we just have different expectations on what the cinematic should be about.
'Story' cinematics in WoW's history have all been in the in-game style. The cinematics for patches, the ones in game, etc.
Yep. And like I said, I hated it. I've wanted for so long that wow's story cinematics are done in gorgeous CGI, as opposed to average-at-best-looking ingame graphics.
WoW trailers are significantly lazier, and are of course, random montages of the in game environment and all the fabulous gizmos and gadgets you get in this expansion. The CGI cinematics aren't meant to be 'trailers' they're setting a scene. I was set no scene in the WoD cinematic, and that disappoints me.
I respectfully disagree. I dunno, the idea of using a gorgeous CGI as little more than advertisement, rather than a story-telling tool was something that always ground my gears regarding warcraft. Particularly due to how well used they are to tell a story in blizzard's other games, from Diablo, to Starcraft, to the RTS warcraft. To see the CGI cutscenes go from that, to mere glorified trailers to "hook people in" it was pretty disappointing to me.(##RESPBREAK##)520##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##
Post by
470415
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
I'm not ripping on any of you for liking it, that's your opinion. I just don't like that it isn't self-contained.
Its ok hyper :P we're not ripping on you either for disliking it, everyone has their own opinion, and when it comes to matters of subjective taste, nobody is really "in the right" or "in the wrong". We're all just explaining why we like/dislike it is all.
:)
Haha, yeah xD Sometimes I can get kinda fiery behind my computer when I type these up, though, so half the time I'm pretty sure my tone lands somewhere in the 'whiny, awful brat' category.
lol :P I've been guilty of that a lot too.
One example is anything in regards to the purge of dalaran (Which is why I don't discuss the topic very often, it lits me up like a kerosene soaked match)
Post by
470415
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.