This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
General Lore Discussions
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Rank, I read through all the quests and info on the wandering isle storyline.......and there was nothing that said or implied that the horde prisoners were horde who were helping to take down deathwing. It actually gives zero explanation as to why they were imprisoned, or when.
You really shouldn't jump to conclusions like that
.
why? you are apparently entitled to do it too.
"Hey guys, a new greymane buff, THAT MEANS GREYMANE IS GETTING A NEW MODEL!"
"Hey guys, alliance gets quests in RFC, THAT MEANS WE ARE HEROES WHO PUT DOWN VILLAINS BUT HORDE DOES'T GET THE SAME RIGHT WITH QUESTS ON STOCKADE!"
the proverb "Pot calling kettle back" rings a bell?
The alliance is all about nobility, honor, faith, justice and sacrifice, and the races of the alliance contribute their wisdom to making the world a better place.
The horde is all about a group of races in an alliance of convenience (all horde races, not just the forsaken) allied together against a world that hates them. THey value strength and honor, but they struggle to keep their aggression in check, and they fight to build a world where people can live free.
So......that ultimately confirms that what metzen was saying wasn't a joke, and was from his point of view and not just varian. Literally, cold hard rock solid 100% confirmation of what I said earlier.
So what have we learned now? First off, there is zero evidence that the horde prisoners on the skybreaker were horde who were helping to kill deathwing, and nothing explains why they were imprisoned and when, so they could have been there as prisoners long before the skybreaker chased after deathwing.
Second, the alliance are lawful good guys who believe in justice and honor and nobility and etc. and who want to make the world a better, peaceful place.
And thirdly, the horde are also good people who, tho are banded together only in an alliance of convenience against a world that hates them, want to make the world a better place as well. But they are still a darker shade of morality in that they are "sometimes monstrous" and struggle to keep their aggression in check.
So that settles it.
That settles nothing. Do the words "Flavor text" ring a bell?
Its one thing what the alliance CLAIMS to represent, and another what they DO represent with their actions. By that same token, America claims to represent freedom and justice, yet they meddle in EVERY WAR ON THE PLANET, and bomb any country that represents even the slightest hint of a threat.
That picture is just each race doing their equivalent of an advertisement. At least the horde is honest about the part that they have their own dark pasts they are moving away from.
This is you again projecting and twisting words into what's convinient for you.
"Ohh horde description includes words "Agression" and "Monstrous" while alliance description includes words "Justice" "Freedom"
THAT MEANS WE'RE BETTER THAN THE HORDE!
¬.¬
And third, The skychaser DID crashed into the wandering island straight out of the fight with deathwing. Its stated in one of the cutscenes, the very reason they got lost in the first place was because of the elemental storm of the fight with deathwing on the maelstrom.
And here is the Skyfire's
Description
from wowpedia. They crashed into the wandering island straight out of the fight with deathwing, as soon as they dropped off the aspects and the few adventurers who put D-wing down.
Edit: Also you conviniently forgot to interpret this important part of the horde description:
"Against a hostile world that would see them destroyed"
That's right, YOUR alliance wants to see the horde destroyed. WHO are the aggressors? who are the ones who broke the peace treaty first? WHO are the ones who instigated the first shot after the horde left the eastern kingdoms to forge their own destiny on a distant land?
I think you know who. You just pretend to not know.
Edit 2:
notice the very words varian says to the pandaren when they join the alliance:
King Varian Wrynn says: They, along with the other
barbarian
clans of the Horde, are your new enemies.
Ohh so now WE are barbarians.
So......... they sent assassins after thrall, wiped out any witnesses who get in the way, invaded Honor Point while a peace treaty was in place, invaded Durotar while the same peace treaty was in place, openly calls us animals while on Trial of the Crusader (While the horde never de-humanizes the alliance) attack a civilian town in the middle of the night leaving almost no survivors (Unlike southshore where just about everyone survived), and yet WE are the barbarians?
F*bleep*K YOU varian.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Wow gratz Adam, you lucky sack of *!@#...
Heh, yup.
So......that ultimately confirms that what metzen was saying wasn't a joke, and was from his point of view and not just varian. Literally, cold hard rock solid 100% confirmation of what I said earlier.Oh just let it die already will you: He freakin' said it was Varian's point of view.
As in, if you want to be justice bringers who uphold beliefs of honor, nobility, and wish to make the world a peaceful place, you side with the alliance. If you want to be a member of a loosely joined together band of outcasts who are hated by the rest of the world, and are struggling to uphold their own morals, but who also want to make the world a better place, you pick the horde.Bull-to-the-!@#$: The Tauren are a thousand times more honourable then any of the Alliance races.
Edit: Not debunking the rest of the crap you spew because it's nothing but Bias Bias Bias.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Not according to the official lore by blizzard.....You sir, need to look deeper: Blizzard has never said that, that's just your own twist to &*!@.
Now, I could care less whether or not you agree with me, I just hate being called biased by people who clearly have their own biases. What I'm saying is you say I'm biased and that I twist the lore around to suit my views, when you and rank are the ones doing that.You are biased; next to Darkton, 4dehorde, Fojar and Tauren, you are still one of the worst out there; you refuse to see any darkness in the Alliance and claim that the Horde is border line evil without backing anything up; hell, your recent comment about the Tauren proves that in spades.
But if you want to ignore specific parts of the canon lore because you don't like, be my guest.Since you do that every day, why shouldn't we?
Anyways, away from the idiocy: Doing the Monk quests now....and the Horde get the better Representative hands down: Ji Firepaw is awesome, and his way is a lot better then miss Aysa; she's cold, unfeeling, and during a quest where you are playing with the Spirit of Water to get It on your side, she merely makes a small joke then goes off. Ji though, is a boisterous, fun loving, lampshade hanging bad ass....so yeah, any comments that the Alliance got the 'good' and the Horde get the Bad are right out the window.
Hell, from the current text: I always figure we should be taught not to wait for inspiration to start a thing. Action always generates inspiration. Inspiration rarely generates action.
Such is the way of the Huojin.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
I don't see how her being serious-face most of the time makes her "cold and unfeeling".Because she is cold and unfeeling? You see it while questing. Like I said, the Horde get's the better one.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
I don't see how her being serious-face most of the time makes her "cold and unfeeling".Because she is cold and unfeeling? You see it while questing. Like I said, the Horde get's the better one.
I've seen the questing, up to the air elemental, and read the quest texts of all the quests, and she never came off as cold and unfeeling to me. She just takes her training much more seriously than Ji.
She has a stick so far up her ass she probably can't bend over. So yes, looks like the Alliance get's the party poopers this time around.
Edit: All the players are to her are pawns who can do the work; she doesn't try to learn anything about them like Ji did.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Which again, means that the Horde got the better ambassador, and version of Yin Yang...of course, since Ji was already a follower of that well....(fun fact, his version matches up with the White aspect of Ying Yang while Aysa matches up with the Black aspect).
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
She's the cold type, you can see that; Ji is just more lovable then she is, and when it comes to having an ambassador, the one who can make the new allies laugh and be at ease, will end up getting their people the better rewards.
Post by
Adamsm
So.....yeah....
King Varian Wrynn: Walk with me. All three of you. I understand that you want to join the Alliance. We always have need of allies. I'd be a fool to turn you away, especially in times of war. But first, there are a number of things that I want you to understand.
Aysa Cloudsinger: Yes. Go on.
King Varian Wrynn: First: the races of the Alliance look out for one another. You are expected to provide aid to Alliance members in need, whether they be human, gnome, draenei....or a pandaren like yourself. It is a simple guidline, but a meaningful one. Do you understand?
Aysa Cloudsinger: Certainly.
King Varian Wrynn: Good. Because that brings me to my second point. Not all pandaren have chosen the same path as you three. Some have sided with the Horde. They, along with the other barbarian clans of the Horde, are your new enemies. Those whom you once considered friends, or even those you might have loved, are now your sworn adversaries. I will NOT tolerate friendships across enemy lines. Do I make myself clear?
Aysa Cloudsinger: Yes... of course.
King Varian Wrynn: Very well. We are nearly finished, *character name*.So...does that count for Anduin and his friendship with Baine?
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
If he doesn't, he's derping even harder then anyone realizes, since pretty much every single Alliance leader knows about.
Post by
Adamsm
And the other side:
Garrosh Hellscream: You've made a wise decision to join sides with my Horde. There are some that would call us barbarians... the 'mongrel races' of Azeroth. They are ignorant, and blind to reality. Look around you, pandaren. You will find no better partner in battle then an orc. The tauren have plenty of uses. Look - this one is a shaman. Even a blood elf can hold a sword. My point is, if you want the support of the Horde, you need to find your role in the Horde. Do you understand this, pandaren?
Ji Firepaw: Yes, warchief.
Garrosh Hellscream: Hm, good. Moving on. I know that you are not the pandaren to escape from that island. Some of your kind chose to join the Alliance. They are now your enemies. You may have had friends and kin who chose to join the Allies. They are no longer your friends... no longer your family. The minute they put on that Alliance tabard, they died. I will NOT tolerate any lingering ties across enemy lines. Do I make myself clear?
Ji Firepaw: I... I believe so. Yes.
Garrosh Hellscream: Good.
Also, while walking to Garrosh seat, one of the Orcs in the Valley of Strength does cheer you as the hero who freed the Horde prisoners from the Alliance ship.
Post by
Adamsm
Oh, something I forget to put when I was walking through Stormwind to talk to Varian; the pair of Paladins out front of the Keep talk about the Pandaren; the Human of course is suspicious of them off the back, but the Draenei soothes him and tells him that all three are strong in the Light....as you walk past, Jojo Ironbrow looks over at Aysa and goes 'What's the Light' heh; so looks like Pandaren priests have their own version too, probably tied into the Great Spirit-Gods of Pandaria.
Post by
Rankkor
I said the horde are a darker shade of morality based on that, stop putting words in my mouth.
Ohh really?
a loosely joined together band of outcasts who are hated by the rest of the world, and are struggling to uphold their own morals
Counter-diction much?
The alliance....because the horde keeps being aggressive to them........I think you knew that, but you just pretend to not know.
k, lets try this again pls.
WHO BROKE THE PEACE TREATY? WHO ATTACKED THE HORDE WHEN THEY MOVED TO KALIMDOR? WHO ATTACKED THE WARCHIEF UNPROVOKED? Am I being Loud&Clear enough? or you're gonna go "lalalalalalalala we don't know who ordered that" again?
We don't know who sent them or why.
you know damn well who did, you're just playing dumb.
Nope, I had some post here a while back that proved that that he been retconned, and that the horde attacked first (via attacking ashenvale, so the alliance sent troops through the barrens to help). I believe it was wolfheart, but I'll have to dig it up to be sure.
Nope, that was you trying to disprove it with that blue post, but as EVERYONE HERE told you, that blue poster explained the presence of troops WITH THERAMOORE TABARDS on horde lands, when the horde hand't yet attacked theramoore. The troops attacking honor point and Durotar wear STORMWIND TABARDS, not THERAMOORE, and they attacked BEFORE the cataclysm (hint hint: Horde attacked ashenvale AFTER the cataclysm)
Learn your lore, or stop playing dumb.
Again, you continue to ignore that they made every effort to prevent as many civilian deaths as possible, and attacked the village because it was supplying horde with soldiers, weaponry and etc.
THEY didn't made any effort to prevent any civilian deaths.
Hawthorne
did an effort to prevent deaths DISOBEYING the direct orders of alliance high-command who ordered him to either purge the town or take the civilians as hostages. Both his superiors, and his own troops (including the emb
ass
ador next to him strongly disagreed with his desicion to let the civiies live)
.....no, the whole town was plaguefied, and barely anyone lived........and all those survivors were hunted down and killed.......
Right, that's why Fenris Island is
packed
with so
many
survivors, the island is
FULL
of them.
Whereas on taurajo you can count survivors with 1 hand.
I did drop it, then I found out what rankorr said about the alliance imprisoning horde who helped defeat deathwing was pure bullplop
how is it my fault that you don't click
links
And, that "join the alliance or horde" thingy is clearly not varian's point of view, it's the game telling you what both sides are like
again bull, that's both faction NPCs describing their faction to you. Delora and Korga describing their factions to you. There is no neutral text in this game at all save for skill/talent tooltips. Every single quest-text, as well as every single flavor text, and everysingle dialog text represents the point of view of SOMEONE in-universe, not of blizzard as a company.
As such, if you find any ANY text within the game, saying something about the alliance, it was in-universe written or spoken by a character of the game.
That little interface letting you choose your faction, is Delora describing the alliance, and Korga describing the horde.
So, unless the game is lying to players, which is bullcrap, then what it's saying is the truth about both sides.
again, the game isn't lying to anyone, IN-GAME CHARACTERS are describing their own faction. NOTHING in this game represents blizzard's PoV unless its a skill/talent tooltip. Even the dungeon journal is written from an In-universe PoV.
I say the horde is good.....you think I'm I'm saying the horde is evil........
You're saying they're morally inferior, while the alliance is flawless shiny and sparkling. Its the same thing basically. (And both are wrong BTW)
You do realize that the literal description for Aysa and her tribe are that they are lawful good believers in justice and honor who don't justify bad deeds don't you? I don't see how her being serious-face most of the time makes her "cold and unfeeling".
Because Cold and Unfeeling don't mean evil, or jerk, it just means *GASP* Cold and Unfeeling.
my uncle is a cop, an honest by-the-book cop who upholds the law, yet he's a complete stiff workaholic who takes his job WAY too seriously. He IS a good guy, but he is also cold, unfeeling, and waaaay too serious. The same thing goes for Aysa.
Well reading the quest text of the quests again she still seems really nice to me, and refers to you as "friend".
Again, we're not saying she's a jerk, far from it, we're saying she's a stiff. A complete stoic, serious, stiff with about the same sense of humor of Sylvannas.
Ji is a more happy-go-lucky sort of fellow, who's just as likely to do his duty to his people as he is to break the kegs of ales and have a round just for the luls.
And regarding that bit with Varian, he's a bit of a hypocrite isn't he? I mean he IS friends with Valeera. Ohhhhh suddenly she doesn't count.
Malfurion is almost a brother to hamuul, OHHHH HE DOESN'T COUNT.
Anduin is a friend of Baine, HE IS HIS SON, HE DOESN'T COUNT.
Nobundo is a big friend of Muln Earthfury..... HE DOESN'T COUNT DAMMIT!
Jaina and Thrall are also very close. SHE DOESN'T COUNT EITHER!
(Seriously I could go on all day :P)
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.