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Post by
Skreeran
I don't think they're that desperate yet. Stormwind isn't sending humans to fight the Forsaken at the moment, at least besides Andorhal (which I would wager was started before the Silverpine conflict was put down).
Stormwind folks don't have to deal with the threat of being raised. It's just not their problem. But if Elwynn was directly attacked by the Forsaken, you can bet there'd be people worgenizing themselves left and right.
Post by
Adamsm
Of course, that doesn't take into account those who died in the civil war, or fighting Bloodfang's pack, or at war with the Forsaken.
but still, has to be 10s of thousands of them that survived today and are in the alliance.
No it actually doesn't; population wise, some of the races are fairly small after all the effects.
But if Elwynn was directly attacked by the Forsaken, you can bet there'd be people worgenizing themselves left and right.Any human kingdom really, if it means they don't have to be revived as a Forsaken.
Post by
Skreeran
But if Elwynn was directly attacked by the Forsaken, you can bet there'd be people worgenizing themselves left and right.Any human kingdom really, if it means they don't have to be revived as a Forsaken.He's talking about Stormwind humans, though. If Kul Tiras is invaded by the Forsaken, Stormwind humans are not going to be rushing down to the blood bank to get worgified. But if Elwynn was attacked, people would be scrambling over eachother to get the serum.
Post by
Adamsm
And if Kul Tiras was attacked by the Forsaken, the humans there would be rushing for the Worgen curse, which is what I meant.
Post by
Skreeran
Right but Morec was specifically referring to
Stormwind humans
But I agree.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
Eh, mass panic can do a lot to change a person's mind. Stormwind City can't hold all of Elwynn Forest, and so I can totally see people who were turned away from the gates willing to do anything to keep themselves from being turned if Elwynn was attacked directly.
Post by
Patty
I personally don't think so. Only faced with a very, VERY direct threat (even the Fenris Isle guys only do it in face of a very real threat) would they even consider doing so.
Gilneas was invaded by the Worgen, and I'd wager that if it wasn't for Greymane himself being Worgen, the population wouldn't have accepted it as easily as it did.
should still be 10s of thousands of them that survived.
Why?
I doubt that there were hundreds of thousands, let alone millions of Gilneans before the forsaken invasion.
Post by
Skreeran
I personally don't think so. Only faced with a very, VERY direct threat (even the Fenris Isle guys only do it in face of a very real threat) would they even consider doing so.
Gilneas was invaded by the Worgen, and I'd wager that if it wasn't for Greymane himself being Worgen, the population wouldn't have accepted it as easily as it did.
should still be 10s of thousands of them that survived. the forsaken didnt kill many of them at all. the worgen, however, wiped out a ton of forsaken lol.Heh, well who holds Gilneas City? :P
And they managed to manipulate Crowley into retreating. The Worgen made an excellent last stand, but let us not forget who the winners are.
Post by
Morec0
I personally don't think so. Only faced with a very, VERY direct threat (even the Fenris Isle guys only do it in face of a very real threat) would they even consider doing so.
Gilneas was invaded by the Worgen, and I'd wager that if it wasn't for Greymane himself being Worgen, the population wouldn't have accepted it as easily as it did.
That's something else I just realized seems wrong. Greymane was supposidly infected shortly after he managed to escape Greymane City - or at least at some point before Duskhaven - yet he, unlike the player character, manages to shift between human and worgen forms at will without the help of the night elves. The only things I can think of to explain it is that A) Krennan had made a stronger potion that he, for whatever reason, decided to only use on the king; or B) Genn just had enough willpower to do so.
Post by
Skreeran
I personally don't think so. Only faced with a very, VERY direct threat (even the Fenris Isle guys only do it in face of a very real threat) would they even consider doing so.
Gilneas was invaded by the Worgen, and I'd wager that if it wasn't for Greymane himself being Worgen, the population wouldn't have accepted it as easily as it did.
should still be 10s of thousands of them that survived. the forsaken didnt kill many of them at all. the worgen, however, wiped out a ton of forsaken lol.Heh, well who holds Gilneas City? :P
And they managed to manipulate Crowley into retreating. The Worgen made an excellent last stand, but let us not forget who the winners are.
the alliance holds gilneas city now. with the horde sitting outside being kept out. its a stalemate rly.Eh, no. The Alliance did send some of the 7th Legion, but they didn't take back the city. Silverpine ends with a decisive victory for the Forsaken, with
Crowley withdrawing
and the existing
7th Legion forces
were
killed
or
routed
.
The reinforcements are arriving, and that's something, but all the standing forces (besides Bloodfang) have been dealt with.
Now, I don't necessarily agree with everything the Forsaken do (in particular with their killing of innocent people), but they certainly are efficient.
And the more that I think about it, taking Gilneas
was
a pretty smart thing to do.
Post by
Monday
so much to be proud of there.
Did Skree ever say he was proud?
yet there is still the battle for gilneas. so explain how the horde won if there is a bg there now.
Because the Horde is defending while the Alliance is attacking? Hur dur.
yes taking an innocent neutral peaceful country and trying to wipe out its inhabitents for nothing more than a port.
The Gilneans were the Forsaken's enemy, and have a very valuable position (e.g. the ONLY Horde port in ALL of Eastern Kingdoms).
Stop trying to pick fights with Skree. Seriously.
Post by
Skreeran
The BG would be the existing Forsaken forces there battling the Alliance reinforcements that it stated were coming.
And it wasn't just for a port. It's a well known fact that Varian wants to wipe out the Forsaken and take back Lordaeron for the Alliance (even though it never belonged to Stormwind in the first place).
What's the best way for Varian to do that? Well, he could send an army across the Thandol Span, but that's a long trip by land, and cutting the army off is as simple as blowing up the bridge.
He could make a D-Day type water invasion, but then he'd be forced to deal with the Forsaken's considerable navy and pay for every inch of ground in bodies.
The very best strategy for him to go for would be to convince Gilneas to back the Alliance in return for protection from the Forsaken and then use Gilneas as a staging point for his troops, shipping tanks and soldiers safely to Gilneas, before using them to push through Silverpine. A much more efficient and effective strategy than the other two.
So the Forsaken (and possibly Garrosh), predicted this, and decided to preemptively take hold of Gilneas. Not only is it a port, but even better, it takes away the enemy's best move.
Post by
Patty
/facedesk
Post by
Skreeran
No, Horde aren't villains. They're still the troubled antiheroes they've been since Lord of the Clans (even if they are at a low point, morally).
The difference is, the Horde is treating this war like a war, and they're willing to do whatever it takes to win. Which is why they're winning.
Post by
Monday
And it wasn't just for a port. It's a well known fact that Varian wants to wipe out the Forsaken and take back Lordaeron for the Alliance (even though it never belonged to Stormwind in the first place).
Granted a lot of Lordaeron's population fled to Stormwind.
horde are the villians now, nothing more nothing less.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
!
!
!
!
chris metzen will pull out one of his beloved yet stupid and overused redemptions and then the horde will SUDDENLY BE TEH GOOD GAIZ AGAIN.
If you say so.
chris metzen is building the horde to be more and more evil till the end of wow then he'll pull out some crappy written redemption and suddenly horde are good guys again.
You already said this.
the horde storyline is so terrible written and flawed that its a joke.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Same principle applies.
thats what happens when writers with little imagination try to make typical fantasy villian races into good guys. they just cant do it without imagination.
They certainly have more imagination than you.
It's called a plot twist. Stories get boring without them.
Which is why they're winning.
I wouldn't say they are winning. The Alliance is literally at Orgrimmar's doorstep, and has cut off the trolls and orcs from the Tauren. Seems a much more strategic blow to me than losing Gilneas.
Post by
Treskol
/facedesk
^ This. Thousand times this.
Alliance and Horde are neither bad nor good. No-one is ever purely 'good' or 'bad'. Everyone has moments where we are evil, and good as well.
Sylvanas was a High Elf Ranger who defended Quel'Thas with such vigorous loyalty to her people that she kept Arthas and his minions at bay, and Arthas eventually defeated her.
Arthas then proceeded to kill her, with his famous phrase of 'After all the pain you caused me, the last thing you deserve is a peaceful death!' or something, and raised her as a Banshee Queen.
At this point she was a servant of Arthas, and killed her own people, which killed her emotionally. Eventually she broke free from his bonds and was changed into a Forsaken by some process I can't remember currently, and had a sole intent to cause Arthas as much pain as he had caused her.
Still think she's evil for fun?
They do what they need to do to survive in difficult times.
Humans (in real life) do the same, does that make us all evil?
Also, what Tolkien writes doesn't become the 'norm'.
Her Orcs =! Warcraft's Orcs.
Post by
Skreeran
Also, what Tolkien writes doesn't become the 'norm'.
HIS
Orcs =! Warcraft's Orcs.Fix'd.
And it wasn't just for a port. It's a well known fact that Varian wants to wipe out the Forsaken and take back Lordaeron for the Alliance (even though it never belonged to Stormwind in the first place).
Granted a lot of Lordaeron's population fled to Stormwind. They abandoned their land and left behind its defenders, who were killed and turned, and some of whom are now Forsaken. It's not their land anymore as far as I'm concerned. I mean, if you were a woman who couldn't fight, and had to leave her home to get on a ship to Theramore or Stormwind, yes, that sucks for you, but zombie apocalypses suck. After you abandon your home, don't expect it back. You lost it. Sorry.
If the Forsaken and Humans could coexist on the same land in peace, then they might have a claim, but that's not going to happen for a long time, if ever. So if it's the Forsaken--the people who lost not their homes, but their lives--or the humans who abandoned their homes in return for survival, then I'd say the land belongs to the Forsaken. It's been ten years since the Scourge destroyed the Kingdom of Lordaeron. Obviously the survivors are living somewhere. There doesn't seem to be a massive population of homeless refugees in Stormwind. So, instead of kicking the Forsaken out of
their
homes, why don't you just keep living where you've been living for the last decade?
I wouldn't say they are winning. The Alliance is literally at Orgrimmar's doorstep, and has cut off the trolls and orcs from the Tauren. Seems a much more strategic blow to me than losing Gilneas.Well, they certainly seem to be winning. They're winning in Ashenvale (they've pushed the elves all the way back to Maestra's post), they're winning in Stonetalon (even if that was by Krom'gar's hand, who was a massive #$%^&*), they're winning in Lordaeron (from Andorhal to Silverpine to Gilneas to Arathi), there's winning in the Barrens (at least at Northwatch)... and so on.
The Alliance forces in Durotar aren't exactly massive. There's two ships off the Southern Coast, which got their asses more or less kicked, and there's Tiragarde keep, which is hardly a fortress, only being populated by a couple folks from Northwatch who were only able to get in by taking advantage of the chaos after the Cataclysm.
I mean, I don't approve of Garrosh's imperialism, but I can't deny that the Horde seems to be winning most of the fights that break out between them and the Alliance.
Post by
Patty
Tolkien was a he. ;)
Also, I wouldn't bother. As we've seen from previous threads, it's futile to try and change a certain user's mind.
Post by
Treskol
Shhhh, the books were always a bit to long for me to read more than once :(
Meaning that I can't remember :)
Nahh, never liked em as much as I liked the movies, as inaccurate as it probably was
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