This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.5
PTR
10.2.6
General Lore Discussions
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
Adamsm
I don't know Rank, they seem familiar; they are an expy of someone, just can't recall who at the moment. And even then, they are the 'standard' military squad that backs up a hero, and isn't one that is killed; Newt the Chick and good with fire arms, Volt the 'insane one', Ticker the bomb specialist, Patch the leader and Grit the firebug.
Post by
Skreeran
Eh, the Gob Squad may draw on the
Five Man Band
trope, but they aren't a direct copy of anything I can think of. But if what Rank is saying is true (haven't done Alliance Redridge yet, been sticking to Kalimdor mostly), than Keeshan is an intentional reference to Rambo.
And so while Keeshan gets cool points for being a cool reference, the Gob Squad earns their own cool points (and by George, do they earn them), and that is what I believe Rankkor is saying.
Post by
Atik
heh :P when the gob squad steps into action, you better get ready for pure UNMITIGATED BADASSERY. Bravo Company was nice and all that, but just as crowley is a pebble next to saurfang, so is the Bravo Company a buch of boy-scouts next to the gob squad.
Meh.
No half-wit long-eared green-skinned midgets can stand up to the awesome might of JOHN J. KEESHAN.
ya know, this really bugs me.
more than once I've heard how awesome Keeshan is, yet I've heard none call him a sue despite that he's in a permanent god-mode rampage in not 1 but 3 zones.
yet, let's see a forsaken female who's name starts with L do something slightly smaller and everyone brands her with the Sue-seal forever.
nevermind that while the former gets well over 10 people who constantly remind you how awesome and baddass he is, the latter gets only 2 who remark that she has intresting spells and would love it if she joined the forsaken formally.
also, while keeshan is cool, all his coolness is due to him being an expy of rambo, thus all his badassery he ows it to some other character on whom he (and his squad) was inpired.
the gob squad were invented in wow, from wow, by wow. They didn't needed to be expys of someone else to be awesome.
Queen Sue is labeled as such because of her bullcrap backstory. The insane power of her and being she is described several times as young (mid-teens in fantasy terms) does not help her at all.
Johnny Awesome, Orkus, and Bravo Company all have perfectly "normal" NPC backstories and are of believable ages and state-of-bodies to do all this crap.
Lorna Crowly also kinda bugged me. She didn't seem more than 20 and yet she was one-shotting guys left and right. She then becomes a leader of the GLF and goes from hunter-in-a-dress to decked out Prot Warrior? I call suenanigans.
Post by
Skreeran
What's so wrong with Voss's backstory? She's certainly no more special a snowflake than Thrall. Thrall was 17 or so when he was winning Gladiator championships and almost single-handedly becoming Shaman, Savior, and Warchief.
And yet everybody loves him (except Sigma, I think, but he hates everything... :P). Is it because Lilian wasn't in a book first? If she came about in a book first, everyone would be calling her out as the next Rhonin/Aggra shoe-in author pet, and people would be demanding that since she wasn't in the game already, she's a bad character (a la Aggra).
The thing is, like Med'an, Lilian has the potential to be a really good character (like Thrall) or a really bad character (like Rhonin). I see nothing in her arsenal or backstory that is worse than Thrall in Lord of the Clans, and so I will give her the same benefit of the doubt I gave him. She could turn out to be a good character (should they decide to come back to her), but only if they handle her delicately. Lord of the Clans was a great book (by video game tie-in standards), and Warcraft III was a great game, so Thrall ended up being loved, and his character ended up getting fleshed out well.
Med'an, on the other hand, has a neat backstory, and has/had the potential to end up becoming a good character, but the execution was a nightmare. Rather than getting a full introduction (Thrall's story started when he was a baby, for crying out loud), he was just kind popped in in a single comic issue with little to no buildup, and then revealed to be the son of Medivh and Garona and the target of a doomsday prophecy and a shamagadinator and the new Guardian. All within the course of a single comic series (though granted, it was spread out over a few months). With a little pacing, they could have made him all of those things without so much fuss, but it seemed like there was a new revelation of how awesome Med'an was every single bloody issue.
Of course, you could say that Thrall went from new character to Warchief in a single book, but I argue that that was a different circumstance. For one thing, it was between Warcraft 2 and Warcraft 3, so you had a big lull between stories that was the perfect time to make new twists and characters. That's one of the problems WoW faces. They can try to inject new characters in between expansions (Voss, Crowley, Aggra, Dranosh, Garrosh, Darion, and so on), but it's usually not as smooth as between whole games (like Turalyon, Thrall, Uther, Saurfang, Bolvar, the Lich King, Arthas, and so on and so forth). In a game like WoW, there's no definite 'stop' between expansion, and so the space to add characters is a lot less clean cut. Anyway, Thrall in Lord of the Clans had an advantage over Med'an in that he was created between games, so that does give him a certain advantage over Med'an (who was inserted in the
middle
of an expansion, adding to his horrible execution), and Voss (who was added between expansions).
In addition, Lord of the Clans was a book, and you can do a lot more a lot better in a book than you can in a comic, or even a comic series (although, granted, there have been some comics that have rivaled books in their detail and completeness, like some of DC's arcs). While a book can take just about as many pages it wants to to make a point (as long as it's concise, of course, and this is where good editors come in; Knaak's books ramble on and on with brief actions taking pages and pages--every chapter of Stormrage and Well of Eternity felt like an uphill climb, whereas I can finish an entire Golden book in a day without even trying, due to its smoothness)... While a book has pages and pages to fill with dialogue and exposition and action, a comic is forced to adhere to a set arc, and only has a few pages to fill its quota of story. So, in a sense, Med'an's shoe-in and subsequent insane power boosting were to be expected of the medium he was introduced in, at least as long as the authors had a quota to fill. Had the entire series focused on Med'an and his growth as a character, rather than simply the last 12 issues, it may have been better (that still doesn't really help the god-awful writing), but since he had to be rushed, his introduction and power boost feel rushed. That doesn't mean that he's an irredeemable character, though.
Likewise with Voss. You can only show so much in the little scripted cutscenes she gets. And if Blizzard took the in-game time to completely flesh out her character to the level of Thrall and Malfurion (in-game Malfurion, that is, I try not to remember that Knaak's take on him exists) and other overpowered-but-good characters, then Blizzard would be blamed for devoting too much focus on her, like they were with Varian and Tirion (to some degree).
Lastly, one of the advantages Thrall had was that his book was well written. Med'an could have been (and still can be, if Blizzard is
very
careful with him from now on, though I don't think that's very likely) a very interesting and pleasant-to-read character if his writing wasn't so jarring. Voss's writing was better, but again, it felt compressed and summarized thanks to the small amount of screen-time she had. However, while Med'an has a disadvantage in that he's already been badly written once, all Lilian has agaisnt her is that she has hardly any real writing at all. All we see about her backstory is what she tells us, and when it's summarized so briefly, it seems overpowered. However, like Thrall, I think that with a little elaboration and detail, with necessarily good writing (all the detail in the world is useless if the writing sucks), she could turn out to be a compelling and interesting character, despite her seemingly sue-ish backstory and above-average powers.
You might say it like this: If she is going to be a major character, expect to see a book (like Thrall or Arthas), or a comic (like Darion/Tirion; Ashbringer was actually pretty enjoyable to read), or some other form of external media that fleshes her out and grants her the opportunity to be an interesting character (although again, and I must stress this, the quality must be good; if it's half-assed, it will doom the character). And if she's not going to be a major character, then there is no reason to hate her.
Post by
Rankkor
Bravo Company all have perfectly "normal" NPC backstories and are of believable ages and state-of-bodies to do all this crap.
not this bit.
while the bravo company has a decent backstory, and believable levels of power, Keeshan is just insane, you get (not kidding here) over 10 people in redridge who take a time every 5 minutes to remind you how awesome he is, how badass he is, and how he can win wars single-handedly, and that without him the world ends, and that if he falls so does lakeshire, and blah blah blah.
I'm thinking of the trope "Informed ability" but then I see him in action, being able to wield a bow and use hunter skills (humans are suposed to be new to the whole hunter thingie, I'd expect that level of skill in nathanos, not in a newbie) and being capable of shooting over 20 arrows at the same time, being just as godly in melee, being a tactical genius, being gifted with snarky repplies, and an incline to shouting everything.
while voss only shows her face in 3 small places within 1 zone (deathknel, scarlet palisade, and the tower next to the scarlet monastery, all of these within tirisfal) Keeshan is litteraly everywhere in redridge, and again in searing gorge.
then we get to their "powers" with voss being capable of 1shoting dozens of scarlet crusade RECRUITS AND AMATEURS, but keeshan 1shoting elite Blackrock orc leggionaires left and right, and ending redridge BY JUMPING TO THE MAW OF A BLACKDRAGON AND STABBING HIM IN THE TROATH AS THE DRAGON FALLS IN THE LAKE OF LAKESHIRE!.(His godmode would had ended if he had died there as the quest implies, but nope, he is still alive and kicking on searing gorge)
I find it staggering that the same passionate hatred aimed at Voss isn't aimed at him. What exactly he has that makes him better? He did just about what she did times 10.
this has deviated a bit from what I started though :P the reason why I love the Gob Squad much more than the bravo company, is that A: they aren't directly copied from heroes of another media, B: they don't go in overpowered rampages (The bravo company obliterates an orc legion, blow up 1 base, siege a tower and a castle, and kill a black wyrm (ala Sartharion)
The Gob Squad however goes to badass while staying on the believable levels, they don't have any kind of super-powers, nor do they go in god-mode overpowered rampages in the zones they show up, they are seen in the azshara naga base where they shoot naga, bomb runestones, kill a naga lord, and cover my back as I collect tablets and a giant stone. Then again in the night elf base on azshara where they plant bombs and clear the place out, then again on Twilight Highlands where they help me infiltrate behind enemy lines to deal with the twilight hammr.
is their "Badass Normal" status (they don't need any super-powers to be awesome) and their actions when they show up stay inside of what a squad of commandos should be capable of doing (forget the movies, 5man commando teams DO NOT win wars alone) and their attitude and personality is both awesome and hillarious. The fact that they aren't a direct copy of anyone also is a big plus.
Nobody can point directly WHO are they an expy of, simply because they are inspired in WoW goblins.
the only thing I regret about the Gob Squad is how little we get to quest with them, I'd loved if they had a small presence in more zones, helping me deal with various tasks in their own unique awesome way.
Post by
Skreeran
By the way, Garona officially has the worst voice actress ever. Worse than Crowley. Worse than Sylvanas. I don't ever want to hear Garona talk again.
Post by
470415
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Behelich
Well, in not-so-Soviet-for-twenty-years-already Russia Crowley gets a better voice actor than Saurfang, and he still cleaves bare-handed and shirtless.
Post by
Skreeran
Honestly though... the Paladin Pals.
Best guys we get to quest with. Hilarious.Favrotie chain in the game thus far, actually. Fiona's awesome.
By the way, Garona officially has the worst voice actress ever. Worse than Crowley. Worse than Sylvanas. I don't ever want to hear Garona talk again.
I mourn the fail voice actors in Cata.Well, they're not all bad. Baine is awesome (Such
flammable
little insects!). Zaela is awesome. Pretty much all of the goblins voices are awesome. And so on and so forth.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
470415
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Also, Burning Steppes, Rank, Burning Steppes, not Searing Gorge. :P
this is the moment where I say "woops" xD my bad.
Honestly though... the Paladin Pals.
Best guys we get to quest with. Hilarious.
I know! as skree said, the entire EPL quests of Fiona's caravan are perhaps the best of the best in the 1-60 content.
though i sometimes wonder how the heck could a blood elf and a dwarf be friends from childhood and remain friends in adulthood, it is still irrelevant, Fiona's Caravan=win.
I mourn the fail voice actors in Cata.
they aren't all bad, as skree mentioned, Baine has an EPIC voice, so does Hamuul, Liam, Zaela, Garrosh (yes the man sucks, but his voice is nothing short of BADASS), and Zuni.
on the crappy side of the spectrum, Garona, Aggra, Myra, and several unnamed mooks that happen to be voiced did a LAME job.
as a last note, since I won't be arround at midnight, FELIZ NAVIDAD ^_^ my friends.
Post by
Monday
Meh. I've never seen Rambo either, so to me the Bravo Company is just awesome (the Alliance has been too long without awesome soldiers. All cool Alliance heroes go neutral/bad in the end.)
Post by
Treskol
(the Alliance has been too long without awesome soldiers. All cool Alliance heroes go neutral/bad in the end.)
Anduin Lothar?
Edit: Added proper quote
Post by
Adamsm
(the Alliance has been too long without awesome soldiers. All cool Alliance heroes go neutral/bad in the end.)
Anduin Lothar?
Edit: Added proper quote
Killed by Doomhammer.
Post by
Treskol
(the Alliance has been too long without awesome soldiers. All cool Alliance heroes go neutral/bad in the end.)
Anduin Lothar?
Edit: Added proper quote
Killed by Doomhammer.
Doesn't make him any less of a hero. People like Broxigar, Doomhammer himself, Grom Hellscream are still heroes, even after death.
Hell, for atleast two of them (don't know much about Doomhammer) it was because of death they became heroes.
But, if you want alive heroes, Turaylon. (sp?)
Post by
Anmity
Oh yeah, I figured out the reason why Lilian Voss is a teenager. From Wowpedia:
From the moment of her birth she was raised as a weapon against the plague as a member of the Scarlet Crusade. She studied stealth, sorcery, martial arts and anything else that would make herself stronger. She gave up her childhood for her father.
The plague in Lordaeron is now ~10 years old. Go figure.
The source is a bit unclear about it, but it does say she "gave up her childhood for it". I'd hardly classify starting at the age of 10 as giving up your childhood, and that means she would have to be younger than that when she started. Anything below 10 + 10 = Less than 20 = Teenager.
Post by
Monday
But, if you want alive heroes, Turaylon.
Turalyon vanished.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Treskol
But, if you want alive heroes, Turaylon.
Turalyon vanished.
True, but Missing in Action, for now, means he has a chance of being alive
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.