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General Lore Discussions
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Post by
Rankkor
I think Skree meant about the arena life; Thrall did have his worse then Varian, as Thrall was nearly killed by that ogre and Varian more or less walked through his year as a gladiator unscathed.
not to mention that thrall was treated worst than dirt during his time as a gladiator, being spat on, insulted, beated for fun, locked up in a cage with no windows, not allowed to walk out unsupervised.
whereas Varian was given acess to good weapons, to walk freely, to have dinner with hamuul runetotem, and neither his dignity nor his body was punished during his time as a gladiator.
heck he got the chance to travel the world, and make 2 lasting friends at it too. He never even spend his nights locked up in a dark hole away from the light of day.
not forgetting that he also only lasted a gladiator for less than 1 year, whereas thrall was living that hell for 20 long years.
Varian's time as a gladiator was a vacation in dubai compared to what thrall went on Durnhold.
Post by
Monday
I think Skree meant about the arena life; Thrall did have his worse then Varian, as Thrall was nearly killed by that ogre and Varian more or less walked through his year as a gladiator unscathed.
not to mention that thrall was treated worst than dirt during his time as a gladiator, being spat on, insulted, beated for fun, locked up in a cage with no windows, not allowed to walk out unsupervised.
whereas Varian was given acess to good weapons, to walk freely, to have dinner with hamuul runetotem, and neither his dignity nor his body was punished during his time as a gladiator.
heck he got the chance to travel the world, and make 2 lasting friends at it too. He never even spend his nights locked up in a dark hole away from the light of day.
not forgetting that he also only lasted a gladiator for less than 1 year, whereas thrall was living that hell for 20 long years.
Varian's time as a gladiator was a vacation in dubai compared to what thrall went on Durnhold.
Aye, but consider the rest of his life.
It seems to me that Thrall's early life was much worse, but also Thrall didn't see his Kingdom destroyed, father murdered etc. The Thrall-people yell "Taretha!" every time and claim Thrall has had worse losses, but consider a moment the people Varian has lost. Bolvar, his Father, and one of his best friends Arthas, who is now the worst threat to Azeroth at the current time.
Post by
Rankkor
when it comes to "losing people" indeed varian has lost more loved ones in his life (to my memory there's his father, Lothar, Bolvar, and also his wife although her death had nothing to do with the horde)
Thrall has only lost Thareta, because while he also lost his parents he never knew them, he was still just a baby.
Still Thrall lost his mentor (doomhammer) and Grom, and Thareta, so Thrall's life has also been full of pain.
what I am asking is to put the whole picture togheter.
While varian has had several key moments when his life truly sucks, for the most part he has lived a good life, from the moment he was born to the razing of stormwind he lived a life of luxury at a royal court, surrounded by his parents.
then his kingdom fell, however rather than being taken by the enemy, he was taken to lordaeron where again he lived a good life among the royalty, full of luxury, never knowing any need, true he lost his parents and his home, but his situation was quite nice.
then he returned to his kingdom, it was rebuilt, and while again he lost someone (his wife) he still lived a life of luxury again at his court.
even during his very brief moment away from his kingdom he still lived a relatively good life (traveling the world, and even having dinner with the highest figures like Hamuul or Tyrande) and he returned to his kingdom to..... yhea u guess it, more luxury, a people who love him, and his son.
he has lot quite a bit, but he has never truly know any need.
Thrall on the other hand was born with nothing, he had to build himself from nothing, he escaped durnhold with nothing, and traveled to durotar with nothing, even today he has never really known any luxury, Orgrimmar isn't renowed as a mighty castle made of stone and gold, it's a town made of stone and bone and mud.
he has lived a life of harship, and while he has lost less people than varian, take in consideration that he has known less people too, and several of who he has known has died as well. The Luxuries thrall has had have been VERY scarse.
Post by
Adamsm
then his kingdom fell, however rather than being taken by the enemy, he was taken to lordaeron where again he lived a good life among the royalty, full of luxury, never knowing any need, true he lost his parents and his home, but his situation was quite nice.Um what? He spent his time in exile fighting alongside Arthas, learning more skills to keep him alive and being ready to flee with the royal family if Capital City fell. He was forced to remain behind in the castle while his protector and other father, Lothar traveled the northern lands fighting against the 'same' Horde that had wiped out his home, unsure if he would come back(he didn't). He spent time after the Second War traveling Lordaeron, seeing the camps and the situations of the orcs, then returned home to Stormwind, to help with the running of his kingdom as it rebuilt.
then he returned to his kingdom, it was rebuilt, and while again he lost someone (his wife) he still lived a life of luxury again at his court.Refer to above, add in watching as his own Council of Nobles outmaneuvered him, threw his city into a riot that ended up with his wife dying, leaving him alone to raise his son, who he only paid some attention to during his 10 years of depression, finally snapping out of it when he realized his son desperate for his attention and love.
he has lot quite a bit, but he has never truly know any need.Really have to disagree; he's lost many loved ones, seen people he cared deeply about suffer and die, has watched as one of his best friends turned on the world and attempted to slaughter everyone. He was also, due to a Black Dragon flight member, forced to spend time away from the people he loved, his friends and his people who he cares deeply about.
Yes, Thrall had a crap shoot early life.... but once he was free of Durnholde, he had a 'family' the instant he found the Frostwolves, and he hasn't been separated from them since. He's lost people of course, which was sad for him, but he honours their spirits, same as Varian honours those who have fallen. I wouldn't say either of them suffered more then the other, but that's mainly because of the way they were raised.
Post by
Skreeran
I think Skree meant about the arena life; Thrall did have his worse then Varian, as Thrall was nearly killed by that ogre and Varian more or less walked through his year as a gladiator unscathed.Indeed, that's what I meant.
I'm not saying Varian's had it easier than Thrall (Thrall has had more pain in some areas, Varian more in others). What I'm saying is that, while Thrall and Varian have both been gladiatorial slaves, Varian's experiences in it pale in comparison to Thrall's. You can't compare the two, which I see happen too often.
Post by
Rankkor
here's a funny question:
why is it that yogg-saron is locked up in a high-security prison, full of the most advanced tech in azeroth, fully staffed by an army of iron dwarves and vrykuls, as well as mecha-gnomes, Iron Colossi and orbital defensive systems......
yet C'tchun is locked up in a place that don't even has any door?
nobody finds this strange?
Also, regarding the suffering of varian and thrall, I wasn't implying that one of them had it worst I'm merely trying to dispell the wrong missconception that somewhat Varian's life has been more "tragic" than thrall's on account of people dieing on him.
and on the gladiatoral experience, as I said above, Varian's life as a gladiator was a vacation in dubai compared to what Thrall had to endure in Durnhold Keep.
Post by
Adamsm
C'thun was thought to be dead; the 'All-Father'(for lack of a better term) of the Titans who terraformed Azeroth beat the living *!@# out of him in the skies of Azeroth, and tossed his giant tentacled ass into the deserts that would become Silithus. As far as they all knew, the thing was dead or died when it slammed into the ground at high speed, so they didn't see the need to do anything about the corpse when it sank.
Also, regarding the suffering of varian and thrall, I wasn't implying that one of them had it worst I'm merely trying to dispell the wrong missconception that somewhat Varian's life has been more "tragic" than thrall's on account of people dieing on him.Again, it's debatable; Thrall never saw a parent die in front of him, just a substitute parent figure at most. Thrall went through a personal hell, but Varian went through one as well but on a grander scale: 18 years under Blackmoore's reign to the 6-8 years of the First and Second war for Varian, with the mass death of both Stormwind and her King, then the death of Second War Alliance forces and Lothar.
Post by
Skreeran
Also, regarding the suffering of varian and thrall, I wasn't implying that one of them had it worst I'm merely trying to dispell the wrong missconception that somewhat Varian's life has been more "tragic" than thrall's on account of people dieing on him.Again, it's debatable; Thrall never saw a parent die in front of him, just a substitute parent figure at most. Thrall went through a personal hell, but Varian went through one as well but on a grander scale: 18 years under Blackmoore's reign to the 6-8 years of the First and Second war for Varian, with the mass death of both Stormwind and her King, then the death of Second War Alliance forces and Lothar.But just as Varian saw his people killed and fleeing from the orcs, Thrall saw his people broken and cowed by the Alliance.
And I would certainly say that Taretha's death is equal to Llane's in the sheer amount of pain it caused. Taretha wasn't a parent, but it was the only personal bond he had, and thus was valued as much as a parent. The shock factors for both are about equal, Varian walking in on Garona cutting out his father's heart about matches Taretha's head being thrown to Thrall.
I personally find Taretha's death even more despicable because she's a woman. There's just something more evil about a man beheading a helpless woman than a woman killing a king, but that's just my own morals that I was taught.
But yeah... In my mind, Varian has been through no worse than Thrall. Varian lost more, but he had more to start with. Thrall lost the only person he had, and was beaten, starved, and spat upon to boot.
Again, I'm not saying Thrall suffered more. Just that you can't say Varian's pain was any worse.
Confrimation code: Of Lampreys.
Post by
Skreeran
http://amslizrah.deviantart.com/art/GARROSH-IS-A-JERK-136529093?q=1&qo=1
Lawl!
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
http://amslizrah.deviantart.com/art/GARROSH-IS-A-JERK-136529093?q=1&qo=1
Lawl!
that image is so full of win it may as well collapse on it's own awesomeness.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Patty
Honestly, gimme some Pandaren brew, a tavern, and two barstools. I promise you the two would be best of friends and then we could have Buddy Cop Movie : Warcraft.
Pass da peace pipe, 'mon.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Patty
Nah, Velen and Vol'jin primarily, with Cairne and Mettatorque coming along for a bit o' da good stuff.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Patty
Varian just goes from tragedy to tragedy. Everything good that happens to him in life is taken away. It's stupidly emo of Blizzard to do so, but them's the breaks, I suppose.
Varian's theme.
(Chose the cover because it's so much more delectably cheesy.)
Its not her fault that Blizzard insists on Plate Bikinis without any sort of protection at all.It's the best type of protection, because when used on the right mannequin (depends what you're into, really :P), it induces men to drool uncontrollably. Plus, the moves required to block a hit with one of those... O_o
Post by
Rankkor
C'thun was thought to be dead; the 'All-Father'(for lack of a better term) of the Titans who terraformed Azeroth beat the living *!@# out of him in the skies of Azeroth, and tossed his giant tentacled ass into the deserts that would become Silithus. As far as they all knew, the thing was dead or died when it slammed into the ground at high speed, so they didn't see the need to do anything about the corpse when it sank.
if c'thun has never been locked up in An'quiraj, then what is preventing him from leaving the place and wreacking havok on the world? I know the dragons sealed the scarab wall, but after the players rebuilt the scepter and broke the seal, what has been containing him? what has been preventing him from fighting us at full power?
Post by
Patty
C'thun was thought to be dead; the 'All-Father'(for lack of a better term) of the Titans who terraformed Azeroth beat the living *!@# out of him in the skies of Azeroth, and tossed his giant tentacled ass into the deserts that would become Silithus. As far as they all knew, the thing was dead or died when it slammed into the ground at high speed, so they didn't see the need to do anything about the corpse when it sank.
if c'thun has never been locked up in An'quiraj, then what is preventing him from leaving the place and wreacking havok on the world? I know the dragons sealed the scarab wall, but after the players rebuilt the scepter and broke the seal, what has been containing him? what has been preventing him from fighting us at full power?
The fact he's not been at full power. I'm almost certain he was still licking his wounds from the Ordering of Azeroth when we faced him.
Post by
Adamsm
C'thun was thought to be dead; the 'All-Father'(for lack of a better term) of the Titans who terraformed Azeroth beat the living *!@# out of him in the skies of Azeroth, and tossed his giant tentacled ass into the deserts that would become Silithus. As far as they all knew, the thing was dead or died when it slammed into the ground at high speed, so they didn't see the need to do anything about the corpse when it sank.
if c'thun has never been locked up in An'quiraj, then what is preventing him from leaving the place and wreacking havok on the world? I know the dragons sealed the scarab wall, but after the players rebuilt the scepter and broke the seal, what has been containing him? what has been preventing him from fighting us at full power?
The fact he's not been at full power. I'm almost certain he was still licking his wounds from the Ordering of Azeroth when we faced him.
Aye, and it didn't help we gave him a small lobotomy when the 'heroes of the Might of Kalimdor' fought him again. We've never seen an Old God at full power after all.
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