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The Future of Anduin Wrynn
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Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
No, Blackhand did the Attack, they found Garona in the room with Llane's body, Doomhammer beat the truth out of her, then he went to kill the Warchief and the Shadow Council.
Post by
Patty
Blackhand was the Warchief of the Horde during the First War between Stormwind and the Horde.
Source
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Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Patty
....Do I have to relink my source? It's right above you.
Post by
Skreeran
Hmm... According to Wowwiki...
* Blackhand the Destroyer is betrayed and slain by Orgrim Doomhammer, a trusted general and close friend. Doomhammer replaces Blackhand as Warchief of the Horde.
* Northshire, Goldshire, and Moonbrook are destroyed.
* Stormwind Keep falls before the full might of the Horde and is sacked. During the battle, King Llane is slain by one of Gul’dan’s assassins, the half-orc Garona.
* Spies loyal to Orgrim Doomhammer capture and torture Garona. In agony, she reveals the existence of the Shadow Council and directs them to the location of Gul’dan’s warlocks near the ruins of Stormwind Keep.Now, ToD opens after Stormwind is destroyed with Orgrim as Warchief, but it doesn't say how long after Stormwind fell. I figured Orcs and Humans (the game) has Blackhand as Warchief and Stormwind is destroyed in that, with Orgrim Warchief in ToD.
More research needed, I'm on it right now. I'd like to figure out the source for the Wowwikic article if there's now book that shows the events of the first war.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Patty
Patty, have you ever heard of a retcon?
There are no retcons about this really. Orgrim becomes Warchief after Stormwind falls. Everyone else is arguing this point. Swallow your pride, you made a misjudgement, it happens to everyone. Just accept it and move on rather than pointlessly argue.
Post by
Adamsm
We can't convince, stop trying, he wont listen. We know it's true, but because admitting that Blackhand was the leader, and not Doomhammer, he would have to admit one of the reason's he hates the Orcs is wrong.
Also, Tides of Darkness is based on Second War, and opens with the refugees from Stormwind arriving at Southshore, not the razing of Stormwind.
Post by
Skreeran
http://www.Wowwiki.com/First_War
The true timeline of the First and Second Wars are blurred somewhat. The initial invasion of the Horde was crushed completely by the Humans, but after a change in power the Orc Horde came back for a second attempt. The Second War begins when the humans attempt to retake the fallen Kingdom.We're not really sure who was warchief when Stormwind fell.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
Just read page 34-35 again, don't see anything about Stormwind. It only talks about Doomhammer taking control of the Horde and killing the Shadow Council, but that very well might have happened after Stormwind's destruction.
Post by
Adamsm
Adam, you need to stop being so full of your self, you deny almost what ever I bring up.I only state what I know, and I have read the same books you have, and I don't recall it saying that Doomhammer lead the full on assualt that destroyed Stormwind. I'm sorry if I don't fall in line with your ideas, but this is a discussion, we all have our thoughts, and if we can have actual quotes that back up what were saying so be it. Again, only reason your even in this thread is because nearly everyone here agrees that Anduin will be a better king then his father, and your Varian fanboyness won't let that go by.
Post by
HiVolt
Read the damn book. Orgrim flashs back in the early chapters that he takes the mantle and leads the assult
Adam, you need to stop being so full of your self, you deny almost what ever I bring up.
Patty, you need to stop twisting words around and read the lore, and keep up with retcons.
Enough of the personal stuff. Any more of this and I will report the thread to be locked myself. God forbid I start a thread with a question of opinions and have it devolve into childish bickering.
Post by
Skreeran
Another Wowwiki link:
Gul'dan saw the Horde led to supremacy over most of the Kingdom of Azeroth, but on the eve of the final siege of Stormwind, Gul'dan was aware of a raiding party against Medivh's tower of Karazhan. Realizing that the Azerothiens intended to slay the Guardian, Gul'dan hastily ransacked Medivh's mind for the Tomb's location. He was still deep within the Guardian's thoughts when Lothar and Khadgar killed him, ending Medivh's treachery and forcing Gul'dan into a coma.
Without the counsel of Gul'dan, Blackhand was easily slain by Orgrim Doomhammer, who, with information acquired from an interrogated and tortured Garona, proceeded to slaughter Gul'dan's warlocks and the majority of the Shadow Council.
Realizing that her vision had become a reality, she reluctantly carried out this task, and with a deep sadness, murdered King Llane, cutting his heart out. At the time, she was pregnant with her son, Med'an.
Gul'dan was in coma by this time, so Orgrim Doomhammer used this situation to his advantage, killing the corrupt Blackhand and seizing the mantle of Warchief. His spies found Garona and tortured her, almost to death, until she finally revealed the secret location of the Shadow Council. The Council was destroyed, and most warlocks were slain.
Let's work out a timeline here:
Day before Stormwind is assaulted: Gul'dan goes into a coma as Medivh dies.
During the Battle of Stormwind: Garona kills Llane.
During or after the Battle of Stormwind: Doomhammer kills Blackhand; tortures Garona into revealing the Shadow Council's location.
So we really can't be sure when. So two things remain...
1. Whether or not Doomhammer became Warchief during or after the battle of Stormwind, he didn't lead the campaign.
2. I stand by my previous statement that Doomhammer was honorable, because every human he killed, he killed so his people would have a home. He simply put the lives of his people over the lives of the humans.
The "Did Doomhammer become Warcihef before or after Stormwind's fall" discussion isn't really productive.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
taurenmoo812
Wonderful way of dismissing it..
I read the books too, and as Skeeran and others have been saying, there is no evidense that Doomhammer because warchief before the fall of stormwind, as the story with the orcs started after the city had fallen, gul'dan coming out of his coma, and discovering blackhand and the shadow council dead but Orgrim. Though is seems to suggest Doomhammer only did this after the horde had stopped fighting the humans in stormwind, and then killed blackhand after it was already sacked.
You know, I know I shouldn't make a personal remark here, but in all these threads, your posts and arguments Darkton have been the most personal towards other posters, and your the one whos ended up ruining a lot of discussions because of it. Maybe you should stop acting like your avatar and stop throwing insults at people you disagree with, and stick to the content matter.
Again, I'm sorry HiV0LT4G3, but it had to be said.
Post by
Adamsm
Wish granted. It was the Varian vs Jaina topic that was locked.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
437763
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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