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Varian Thread
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Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
138638
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
taurenmoo812
Alas unless a blue post says the order of lre relevance the comic is real lore, and as some have pointed out blizz is chaning Thrall alot aperantly he's gotten a bit racist. But honestly does blizzards lore people not check the comics or something?
I wouldn't think Metzen would want Thrall being racist. and also
wtf is up with Medivh and Garona had a son we never heard of o and he's part dreanei so he'll age slowly, O ya I almso forgot he's part of some prohpecy which could save the world!
The comic writers are pathetic with lore but sadly it's real lore
mabye blizzard is trying to make Thrall the same as Varian when it coms to opinions of the other race?
also to try to drive us back to Varian, What do you think -assuming the rumors are true- of Varian leading the humans and a leader of the Alliance against Garrosh what are your opinions on this
I don't think thats the case.
I think its purely a fact of divided ideas thrown out there by different writers who can't work together. I've seen it happen in comics tons of times over the years, and one writers quitting the company they work for to join others ones, because of difference of ideas clashing.
The same applies to the comic lore and the ingame lore, you can take the base substance of how it works out in terms of plot direction, but the smaller details really can be overlooked because of it being a different writer to another. So having Thrall suddenly making some racist remark to Varian isn't what another writer would do ingame, and especially is it was a writer like Christie Golden in her novels.
Its the same reason if you mentioned to players ingame about Med'an, most wouldn't have a clue who you were on about, or about this whole meeting in theramore thing.
Post by
HiVolt
Lol, yeah
In the Varian vs Jaina page, you said Varian was a out-right terrible leader, but in The Future of Anduin Wrynn, you listened to what I had to say about him. Thanks again.
I still think Jaina is a better leader. I'll take Varain, but he hates my orcs(with a good reason, I'll admit... if I were in his shoes I'd probably hate them too), and I think he's a bit short-sighted, and more than a bit prejudice. But, he's a strong and passionate leader, and that's what the Alliance needs... although I think it would have been cooler to do it with Tyrande, or maybe Magni, instead of the cliched fantasy-fiction thing, where the leader of the charge is always a human, and a warrior to boot.
But as far as not listening in Varian vs. Jaina, I did listen. It's just that most of our arguments were matters of opinion, and you have to admit, everyone has one and they're normally hard to change. I'm still kicking myself for mentioning Reginald Windsor though... I should have known better.
In The Future of Anduin Wrynn, I didn't want to debate anything, it was more of a speculation/opinion thread. You did make a great point in how Anduin would take Bolvar's death, and that's one of the main things that I see that might turn him off to the idea of peace.
I like your stanch support of the Alliance, and I commend you for looking at things in a different perspective. You just have to remember not to target users on a personal level.
Post by
138638
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Post by
hymer
Yeah Thrall was out of character , based on a bad writers decision.
Two things:
It was in the heat of the moment. I think it's quite excusable.
Can we just disregard something happening that we don't like? Then Dark can just say that whenever Varian does/says something that puts him in a bad light, it was written by a bad writer. And when Thrall doesn't keep Garrosh in check, it doesn't really happen, because you and I don't like to see our Thrall not doing it... No, come on. Thrall can make mistakes, he can get angry, he can be stumped, he can be speechless. I'd like him a whole lot less if he was perfect.
Post by
Achloryn
Yeah Thrall was out of character , based on a bad writers decision.
Two things:
It was in the heat of the moment. I think it's quite excusable.
that doesn't make sense... Varian has said many racist things about orcs in the heat of the moment, does that make it excusable? (the "green-skinned abberations" speech in undercity is one example, and the "full or half, an orc is an orc" being another.)
Can we just disregard something happening that we don't like? Then Dark can just say that whenever Varian does/says something that puts him in a bad light, it was written by a bad writer. And when Thrall doesn't keep Garrosh in check, it doesn't really happen, because you and I don't like to see our Thrall not doing it... No, come on. Thrall can make mistakes, he can get angry, he can be stumped, he can be speechless. I'd like him a whole lot less if he was perfect.
i would have to agree with this. there's so many things I would like to say about the past few posts in this thread, but it's spread across like 4-5 pages and I really don't feel like doing that much copy/pasting.. argh. lol
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
taurenmoo812
that doesn't make sense... Varian has said many racist things about orcs in the heat of the moment, does that make it excusable? (the "green-skinned abberations" speech in undercity is one example, and the "full or half, an orc is an orc" being another.)
Ha, well fact is, Varian appears to have a
lot
of those 'In the heat of it' moments, and so unlike Thrall, you can't keep using the same excuse with Varian whos a rageaholic. Thrall seemed to have reason enough for that moment when faced with Varian's reactions.
Post by
Adamsm
wtf is up with Medivh and Garona had a son we never heard of o and he's part dreanei so he'll age slowly, O ya I almso forgot he's part of some prohpecy which could save the world!
There's a prophecy? Where?
Post by
222376
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Patty
wtf is up with Medivh and Garona had a son we never heard of o and he's part dreanei so he'll age slowly, O ya I almso forgot he's part of some prohpecy which could save the world!
There's a prophecy? Where?
He's a Sue. Prophecies are common among his type. Look at Rhonin's children.
Post by
Skreeran
Supposedly the Air battle (with the jetpacks and all that good stuff) will be between Saurfang and Varian.
I doubt Saurfang would start that up, that's really not him.
Could it be that Thrall grew a pair and put Garrosh in his place?Where'd you hear this? If this is true, I'm gonna have to work a lot harder to raid, so I can get into ICC. I luuuuuuuuuuuuuuv Saurfang!
Post by
Patty
Saurfang on a Jetpack? That just takes his awesomeness to a completely different dimension.
Post by
Skreeran
Saurfang on a Jetpack? That just takes his awesomeness to a completely different dimension.I'll have to break out my 3D glasses...
Post by
hymer
Jetpacks?
/cries
Post by
Patty
Saurfang on a Jetpack? That just takes his awesomeness to a completely different dimension.I'll have to break out my 3D glasses...
Pfft, his tornado cleave would break into the 4th Dimension.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
Saurfang on a Jetpack? That just takes his awesomeness to a completely different dimension.I'll have to break out my 3D glasses...
Pfft, his tornado cleave would break into the 4th Dimension.Let's see...
4th dimension: Saurfang cleaves you in all-time and space at once.
5th dimension: Saurfang cleaves you, but in this timeline, you had decided to play Warhammer instead, and now you are confused.
6th dimension: Saurfang cleaves you in both Warhammer and WoW at once.
7th dimension: Saurfang cleaves you in all possible in all possible timelines from the big bang to the end of our universe.
8th dimension: Saurfang cleaves you in all possible timelines in another universe.
9th dimension: Saurfang cleaves you in all possible timelines of our universe and the other universe.
10th dimension: Saurfang cleaves you in all possible timelines of all possible universe. You take 21350 damage, (∞ Overkill). You have died.
Post by
Rankkor
ok, that's it, I've been away for a few days, and came back a couple of days ago, and wanted to be just an espectator to see how this plays out, but I've had enough.
before I start though:
Five days with out Rankkor? PPPPPPPPPPAAAAAARRRRRRRRTTTTTTTYYYYYY!
tottaly uncalled for U.U and if u meant it as a harmless joke, it wasn't funny at all.
and now, to business:
Can we just disregard something happening that we don't like? Then Dark can just say that whenever Varian does/says something that puts him in a bad light, it was written by a bad writer. And when Thrall doesn't keep Garrosh in check, it doesn't really happen, because you and I don't like to see our Thrall not doing it... No, come on. Thrall can make mistakes, he can get angry, he can be stumped, he can be speechless. I'd like him a whole lot less if he was perfect.
yes we can.
why? because thrall is a saint, and varian is a scumbag.
why?
when thrall encountered medivh. he showed respect.
he encounters tirion for the first time: he shows respect.
he meets jaina at the stonetalon peak: shows respect (a bit hostile, but with respect)
on the bonus campaign of frozen throne humans hit his lands, and he first shows respect and diplomacy by investigating the reasons behind these atacks instead of going varian-mode and say "the humans betrayed me, I'll slaughter them all"
he only took action AFTER he confirmed the situation and even then showed mercy for the humans who werent affiliated with the atackers.
on the dalaran summit he shows respect (even when this is after the comics)
on the argent tournament shows respect (again after the comics)
and just like that, out of the clear blue without any aparent reasosn they want us to accept this completely out of character line?
no way man, just no way.
this is as if the comics depicted alextrazsa killing someone on cold blood, slit the corpse in half, eat one of the half and burning hte other half while laughing maniacly.
if something like that shows on the comics we can't just accept it because that's not the alextrazsa we know and love.
same goes for thrall, without any background AT ALL of human dismissal attitude he drops that line? that's the writers fault.
now mister varian, if he says or does something that puts him on a bad light, u can't blame the writers, because he's a jerk EVERYWERE.
let's quote a few lines of him shall we?
"every time I killed a green-skinned aberration like you" (racial slur)
"half-orc, full orc. what does it matter? none of you may be trusted" (AKA, if 1 orc is evil, every single orc is evil, look at me in the eyes and tell me that's not a bigot and a racist scum rite there)
"can we trust these savages to keep themselves in check?" (doubting the capacity of honor to respect the armistice without a single cause to prove his claims)
"I dind't come here to watch animals tear at each other's troaths" (dehumanizing his hated foes, to make them look more like monsters and less like sentient capable beings of honor and nobiliy)
let's face it, i've NEVER seen varian say ANYTHING good about the orcs, ever ever ever.
and darkton
this line "taretha sacrificed herself for
this
guy?" shows that u've been wanting an excuse to bash thrall and now grabed the smallest one to go for it.
yhea thareta sacrificed herself for the guy who freed his people, brought them out of their demonic corruption and restored them to their noble shamanistic roots, has fought tooth and nail to secure a peace with the humans even when they have insulted and atacked his people over and over again at every chance they get, for the guy who was at hyjal to defend the world while varian sat on his ass on stormwind giving a damn, for the guy who more than anyone else has tried to mend the old hatreds-
Varian after the undercity battle
:Peace? Useless... (warmonger) , Return to Northrend, <name>. Conquer it for your king - FOR THE ALLIANCE! (greed and expantionism, to conquer means to kill those who own that wich you seek to take, I can't believe that after everything that has happened, the first thing he cares about is his damn avarice)
Thrall after the undercity batte
: A new battle dawns, <name> - a battle which there can be no victor................ (no matter who wins, lots will die, and dying=bad)/ Our salvation lies with heroes like you, <name>. The future of the Horde -
of the world
- depends on you. (he desires peace and salvation for the world)
in other words, varian says "go and expand my lands, get me more money"
thrall says "go and save the world"
so yhea, don't rationalize and dishonor her sacrifice because thrall is 1000000 times more worhty of it than anyone in the whole warcraft universe.
and last but not least. you all seem like spinning this arround thrall when u forget that he's not the one on trial here, varian is.
Thrall said "perhaps I was wrong to expect more from a human" what does this indicates? that he had high expectations of them, he actually hoped them to behave with decency and honor, to be more acurate he hoped VARIAN acted like a king, and not a bully.
also let's not forget that he stopped garrosh, reminding him that even if they are insulted and dishonored ( a grave crime against any orc, for our society to soil our honor is as if to spit in our ancestors graves) they still will act with honor and respect the truce on theramoore.
after that he expressed (in a slightly strong way) his dissapointment at varian, because he did had high expectations about him, and varian failed to meet those expectations.
how did he failed? by acusing the horde, and all orcs in general of treason and being murderers, without any evidence, based on the actions of a single person.
if that's racism, then why don't we all say "thrall is a racist because on the dalaran summit he told to garrosh that he's dissapointed in him, OMG he hates the brown orcs"
no, showing disapointment is not the same as HATING somenoe.
a racist person, hates all members of an entire race, for no reason at all.
a disapointed person is someone who expected better from someone else.
BIG EFFING DIFFERENCE.
now stop spinning this arround thrall, and a crappy line written by a loose writer who doens't know what the hell was he thinking, and let's focus on varian again,. since this is HIS trial, not thrall's.
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