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Unholy Tank, Need Help
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Post by
shadowsilver
Hello fellow Death Knights (and others who might be looking)
I got a strange problem, everytime i "try" to tank. i get squished like a cloth user. (well not THAT bad, but still).
Up to 3.2 i was a great tank. (as in above the average Death Knoobs on my realm) and when patch 3.2 came out i was here on wowhead seeking an advice with a new Unholy Spec (i was unholy before 3.2 aswell).
However, nearly everytime i enter a raid or HC, people first complain about my hp, which in Frost precence is at 30,1k Unbuffed. and then i get killed. I have seen a priest healer with Average gear from U25, and he couldnt hold me up in ToC HC.
I have only recently had one healer who could hold me up, a paladin for thoose interested, and she generally said everyone else i had been healed of had been slacking, and i was easy to heal. Of course, that is great to know. but, i cant belive its everyone else. its got to be something i have done wrong.
And the obivious, yes, im tanking in frost, yes i tank them with my front to them, and yes, i am Defense capped.
Armory Link:
Shádowsilver of the Lightnings Blade
Please advise. im losing my mind over this.
Oh, and for thoose who say go Blood, i have tried, but i just dont get the rotation with it. so i would much prefer to stay unholy.
Post by
328121
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Post by
300574
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Post by
shadowsilver
Why do you have Plague Strike glyphed? Get the Bone Shield glyph, it's extremely important for any unholy tank.
I also don't see any need for Ravenous Dead to be maxed out, since as a tank you don't have the ghoul pet (and 3% strength isn't a whole lot, for 3 talent points). Those points would be better spent in Magic Suppression, in my opinion.
Allright, so you mean i should set my talent like
this
?
I see what you mean with the 3 points for 3% strenght. And the plague strike glyph, well i have had trouble with Threat, and as PS are a important thing in my rotation, i assumed +20% Damage = +20% Threat.
However, i guess your right about the Bone shield, as the problem currently is that im as you say, dropping like a rock.
Your gear looks good though - even with two stamina trinkets, your avoidance is pretty high.
Well, i allways have the dodge trinket from the Heroism badges with me. but i usally use the stamina trinkets because of my "low" HP.
You also mention people complaining that 30k hp isn't enough for heroics - these people are called "idiots" and should be avoided at all costs
Well, the before mentioned Paladin would agree with you. but as i see it, when im tanking alongside with a druid/paladin/warrior im allways way behind in HP. and, wlel, then there is the "i die" thing again.
there is just 1 thing that i don't understand. and that is why do people complain about 30k hp? it's really high for an heroic. i know almost every tank has 30k+ hp now but at the start of WotLK tanks were tanking heroics with 22k hp
Well. thats just how it is on my realm, and i guess on many others out there aswell.
Post by
shadowsilver
Allright. Tried out the spec in Old Kingdom HC last night.
It did improve the survive-ability. However. not what i would say enough. I still drop like a rock when my defensive CD are gone, I pop Bone shield, and when its destroyed/removed, i pop IBF. and hope for the best.
Post by
300574
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Post by
shadowsilver
Allright.
Allthrough i have allways had something against Blood. i will try. im at work atm, and from the talent calculator, i made
this blood spec
up.
Am i completely off the road there? :)
If no response, when i get home ill find an unlucky healer and some dps. and then give it a try in a HC.
Post by
416006
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Post by
shadowsilver
May i ask, why not spell deflection and mark of blood?.
Hysteria and Heart strike looks like DPS talents to me, at least Hysteria, im not really interested in losing more HP.
And i took Virulence in Unholy because im only at 9,49% spell hit without it.
Another thing. your build did not contain any glyphs. so i guess the one i had chosen were right?.
Post by
davezznl
Your correct about hysteria its mostely a dps talent, but you can use it if you threat is low, more damage is more threat.
But if you fine on threat you could spend it otherwise. When i get home ill post a spec im running with atm.
Post by
416006
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Post by
138583
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Post by
shadowsilver
Allright. ill start with you Zakkhar.
I have allways been told, i needed to reach the Spell hit, and i should get as much expertize as possible. Thats why i spec Virulence, and gem with Expertize/hit.
About the talents. i took thoose as they were recommended to me here on wowhead.
topic
And as i said back then, it worked well. but lately, it just havent worked. might be because the healers are slacking as you, and my friend says.
Bone shield and Blood Tap glyphs, Well. my problem is i take too much damage for the healer to keep me up.
About the socket's. Well. might just be a bad habbit. but should i then slam Stamina gems in them all?
But, looking at your spec. Why Improved Unholy precense?.
About the rotation, if single target pull, lets say a caster, like the confessor from ToC. i run up and drop DnD under us, start out with IT then PS, then Blood Strike, As i wait for runes to come back, i use Rune strike, if not avaiable, Death Coil. From then i go with Scourge Strike and Blood Strike, while i keep diseases up, along with Rune striking as much as possible, again, if not avaiable, i Death coil instead.
I do my best to reactivate Bone Shield asap. but if i see its not going well i use IBF aswell. i just tend to keep it if there is a real "oh s#&*" situation comming up.
Post by
shadowsilver
You won't be using hysteria on yourself but on the highest dps in your party.
Unlike frost spec you have just 1 spell (icy touch) and most of the times you can afford to miss once with it(no cooldown and just 1 frost rune that doesn't diminish your threat generation much).
Most of the pulls will not consist of more than 3-4 mobs so the majority of your threat would come from hearth strike(it hits 2 targets and sometimes launches a death coil if you have the sudden doom talented).
Mark of blood is good if you can spare the blood runes for it, but your healers should be able to neglect those 1.2k heals every 2 seconds when you are targeted by 1 mob.
Most of the deadly spells are not direct damage so spell deflection becomes useless against them and you already have a 45 sec cooldown called Anti-Magic shell, also you could pull out the points put in improved blood pressence which are fillers actually).
Bloodworms are a big NO they have their own threat so they don't contribute to you at all.
And yes I do think the glyphs are ok.
On to you.
Hysteria. so i should spend points to improve a DPS?. i would more like the point to improve either my own surviveability or my own damage/threat generation.
Heart Strike, isnt it much like a Blood boil then? (Without Sudden doom)
Mark of blood, now thats something i can understand as usefull for me, in reference to Hysteria. with the problem being i take too much damage/the healer isnt doing his/her job.
Im sorry about spell deflection, i just thought it would be usefull, as i often tank "something" that casts some sort of magic against me. but i guess i should use AMS there instead then.
Bloodworms, okay. its a boomer, sorry.
Post by
138583
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Post by
Bonurmum
Heart strike is part of the blood tank rotation, it should not be skipped, it will out damage blood strike, as well as act like a mini AoE on two targets for the added threat. Hysteria is filler, but can act as a way to boost a dps and should never be used on you.
My blood MT spec
if you were wondering, feel free to move talents around for Morbidity to simplify Heroics tanking, frost will much serve you better in heroics however and Im also specced for that if you want to see it.
As far as gemming hit for spell cap, it isnt necssary with virulence if specced, or even that necessary as it used to be for unholy with the UB nerf (having UB up 24/7 used to be great for threat, now you can skip the talent entirely) and even expertise gemming is pointless to an extent for heroics tanking seeing as 26 is only the raid boss cap, not the heroic cap.
Post by
shadowsilver
My blood MT spec
if you were wondering, feel free to move talents around for Morbidity to simplify Heroics tanking, frost will much serve you better in heroics however and Im also specced for that if you want to see it.
Allright. tried your spec, with a little change towards Morbidity in CoS HC last night. and it went pretty good.
I have to admit, even when the rest of my group failed to read the map and ran the opposite direction of the wave, (and i didnt notice so i threw myself in for some killing, as i used to), i was able to hold myself up with IBF and Vampyric Blood the seconds it took the group to come back to me, with me yelling over Vent.
Had i been Unholy there, i would have dropped like a rock. as i used to.
Now i just need to correct my gems, but, that might take a while, as im out of honor to get the gems for ^^.
Thanks for the advice. :)
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