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Varian Wrynn = Deathwing?
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Post by
344679
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Except, it's not Champ, as stated again and again heh; Deathwing was injured after the Battle at the end of Day of the Dragon's and went into hiding. Since then he's been off experimenting with the different flights and leaving the plunging of Azeroth into Darkness into the hands of Onyxia and Nefarion. Let's be truly honest, if Varian was Deathwing, would he have let his daughter treat him like a little sex toy? Or split him in two for that matter.
For me, I am a Deathwing fanboy, and have been reading his stuff about his subtle(and not so subtle) manipulations of the mortal races. Varian is the exact opposite of everything Deathwing's mortal guises have been about; calm cool manipulation and subtly.
Post by
Thyrael
Hmmm.....i just dont think so
i mean
( when you complete Reborn From The Ashes ( return Bolvar shield ) )
<King Wrynn brushes away a tear.>
<King Wrynn nods.>
This is my fault.
And the Oscar goes to......
Post by
150529
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
mgman640
No, just no. Mainly because if he was the Destroyer, he sure as hell wouldnt have made Varian into the Hated Person he is. During his time as Lord Prestor of Alterac, Deathwing was calm cool and collected, convincing everyone that he was the best choice. Rage-aholic Varian is as far from Deathwing's human person as..... Thrall is from Garrosh. You hate the guy, but don't insult Deathwing like that really.
This.
Post by
Rankkor
there is simply no way that "Varian the Aryan" Führer of the alliance, is deathwing.
(what do ya think of my new nickname for varian? I think it fits perfectly xD, and for those who don't know what an aryan is, search it up on wikipedia or google it)
Post by
Supremacy
Hasn't Varian been around Alexstrasza, the Life-Binder? Or one of her representatives, or a dragon, or some sort?
I'm just saying, from what I understand, dragons can recognize other dragons pretty easily. And, I don't know, I've got to imagine that magic floating city full of mages would have some kind of...I don't know, some kind of warning system that would say something like "HOLY HELL, THAT IS DEATHWING WALKING INTO OUR CITY".
Post by
Adamsm
Hasn't Varian been around Alexstrasza, the Life-Binder? Or one of her representatives, or a dragon, or some sort?
I'm just saying, from what I understand, dragons can recognize other dragons pretty easily. And, I don't know, I've got to imagine that magic floating city full of mages would have some kind of...I don't know, some kind of warning system that would say something like "HOLY HELL, THAT IS DEATHWING WALKING INTO OUR CITY".
QTF.
As for Rankorr, that's going a little far, Varian is bad, but he isn't Nazi bad.
Post by
Rankkor
Hasn't Varian been around Alexstrasza, the Life-Binder? Or one of her representatives, or a dragon, or some sort?
I'm just saying, from what I understand, dragons can recognize other dragons pretty easily. And, I don't know, I've got to imagine that magic floating city full of mages would have some kind of...I don't know, some kind of warning system that would say something like "HOLY HELL, THAT IS DEATHWING WALKING INTO OUR CITY".
QTF.
As for Rankorr, that's going a little far, Varian is bad, but he isn't Nazi bad.
Not a racist=he judges someone by their actions, not their etnich group, race color or religion.
Racist=if u belong to a certain race religion etnich group or color you imidietly are judged to be a specific evil, wheter terrorist or simply inferior.
to varian all orcs are evil, every single one, wihtout exeptions to this norm whatsoever.
on his mind every single orc should and must die.
if he had the power and resources to do so, he would put all orcs on azeroth on concentration fields and mass execute them all.
no incarceration, just a green holocaust.
and of course, he's utterly convinced that there is no evil on his own ranks, he's totaly convinced that his side is righteous, and doing what's correct, and refuses to pay antention to anyone who says otherwise.
if that's not a nazi I don't know what that is.
that's the only thing in common with deathwing and varian, both of them believe their own race to be superior and the others to be inferior savage filthy thieves murderers and unfit to inhabit this world.
who the hell does varian thinks he is to dictate that the horde needs his "permission" to prosper (quoting him on the battle of the undercity "we allowed these horde to prosper") the horde doesn't need his "permission" to live.
therefore to me he is and always will be "Varian the Aryan"
Post by
Adamsm
Dude, his wife was killed because of the Council of Nobles, he knows full well there are corrupt members in the human race. Yes he's focused on the Orc's right now, but hopefully Blizzard will change that at some point. And no where have I seen it said he wants to holocaust the Orcs.
As for the Deathwing thing.... sorry but his kind are perfect, we should all serve Lord Deathwing, he is the true master of Azeroth.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
All hail King Deathwing! /salute
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Never leveled a Horde toon in the Barrens, only allies and no one talks on alliance side.
Post by
Supremacy
As for Rankorr, that's going a little far, Varian is bad, but he isn't Nazi bad.
Not a racist=he judges someone by their actions, not their etnich group, race color or religion.
Racist=if u belong to a certain race religion etnich group or color you imidietly are judged to be a specific evil, wheter terrorist or simply inferior.
to varian all orcs are evil, every single one, wihtout exeptions to this norm whatsoever.
on his mind every single orc should and must die.
if he had the power and resources to do so, he would put all orcs on azeroth on concentration fields and mass execute them all.
no incarceration, just a green holocaust.
and of course, he's utterly convinced that there is no evil on his own ranks, he's totaly convinced that his side is righteous, and doing what's correct, and refuses to pay antention to anyone who says otherwise.
if that's not a nazi I don't know what that is.
that's the only thing in common with deathwing and varian, both of them believe their own race to be superior and the others to be inferior savage filthy thieves murderers and unfit to inhabit this world.
who the hell does varian thinks he is to dictate that the horde needs his "permission" to prosper (quoting him on the battle of the undercity "we allowed these horde to prosper") the horde doesn't need his "permission" to live.
therefore to me he is and always will be "Varian the Aryan"
...
...I think - and this is just supposition, here - that you just
might
be looking at this the wrong way.
For one, "races" don't seem to exist so much in Azeroth as species do. Mag'har and Frostwolf are both orcs. So it's not quite that simple.
Second, Varian is the king of Stormwind. It's not like he doesn't actually have the resources to at least try to wipe out every orc on Azeroth. I'm not saying he would succeed, but I'm saying he could at least try. He hasn't, though, and he's actually tried a few partnerships and collaborations with them.
Also, I'm fairly certain he meant "allow them to prosper" in the sense that they were all in those prison camps after that whole war thing. "Allow them to prosper" instead of just killing them all, an idea Varian was actually against (if I remember correctly).
More importantly, though, you're injecting real world politics and history into a fantasy setting. Which is questionable, at best, but you're using topics and references that are more than a little inflammatory. And while you may actually feel that strongly about Varian, you should accept that you might actually start offending other people by calling him that. And I don't mean offend the people of Stormwind. I mean offend people in the Wowhead community. Those terms aren't really meant to be thrown around lightly. By "people", I mean the humans sitting behind the computer screen; some of whom might be the moderators who do things like lock forum threads and ban users.
You'll forgive the presumption, but just from reading the quoted message? From my standpoint, you are getting very close to crossing a line. I mean, you're trying to defend comparing the fantasy king in a fantasy game to a Nazi.
I think the old saw is "we can disagree without being disagreeable."
I'm just saying.
Post by
taurenmoo812
...
...I think - and this is just supposition, here - that you just might be looking at this the wrong way.
For one, "races" don't seem to exist so much in Azeroth as species do. Mag'har and Frostwolf are both orcs. So it's not quite that simple.
Second, Varian is the king of Stormwind. It's not like he doesn't actually have the resources to at least try to wipe out every orc on Azeroth. I'm not saying he would succeed, but I'm saying he could at least try. He hasn't, though, and he's actually tried a few partnerships and collaborations with them.
Also, I'm fairly certain he meant "allow them to prosper" in the sense that they were all in those prison camps after that whole war thing. "Allow them to prosper" instead of just killing them all, an idea Varian was actually against (if I remember correctly).
More importantly, though, you're injecting real world politics and history into a fantasy setting. Which is questionable, at best, but you're using topics and references that are more than a little inflammatory. And while you may actually feel that strongly about Varian, you should accept that you might actually start offending other people by calling him that. And I don't mean offend the people of Stormwind. I mean offend people in the Wowhead community. Those terms aren't really meant to be thrown around lightly. By "people", I mean the humans sitting behind the computer screen; some of whom might be the moderators who do things like lock forum threads and ban users.
You'll forgive the presumption, but just from reading the quoted message? From my standpoint, you are getting very close to crossing a line. I mean, you're trying to defend comparing the fantasy king in a fantasy game to a Nazi.
I think the old saw is "we can disagree without being disagreeable."
I'm just saying.
And I'm saying Rankkor illustrated the alliances new ruler perfectly.
Firstly, he's meant to only be the king of stormwind right? But with his sudden reappearance he has self claimed himself as the leader of the alliance as a whole, with the vast majority of the alliance being human, and the other races following him, his self claim to being ruler of the alliance has just fallen into it.
The prison camps, when Varian Wrynn was a child, its hardly anything to say his opinion of what should happen to the orcs then mattered like it does now. And his opinion of the orcs now has turned itself around (if you start listing his reasons I'll flame you like a pyro blasting mana crack elf).
So what your saying is by referer to a character in fiction as being a reflection of a well known real world dictator and murderer, you think its going to offend people that such a comparison is made. I could just as well turn that back and say I find it offensive that you didn't make that comparison in the first place, and couldn't see it like that. God, do you know how many references there are to real world stuff that blizzard has put in wow, and yet one reference to a nazi dictator and you say 'oh thats offensive'?
People reference nazisum in so many ways as a standard for the ultimate form of bigotry and genocide, because thats what it represented at the second world war.
Personally, I can read in your post as someone who's just realised a lot of what the previous poster said being true, and now trying to deny it.
Post by
Skreeran
Varian doesn't seem like a Nazi to me... He really does care about his people. I would put, say, Putress as the Nazi, or the Scarlet Crusade.
Post by
taurenmoo812
Varian doesn't seem like a Nazi to me... He really does care about his people. I would put, say, Putress as the Nazi, or the Scarlet Crusade.
I'm not sure Skreeran. Is throwing his people into an idiotic and senseless war with no clear victor really caring about his people, or just doing it for his own wants and desires? He strikes me as someone who constantly looks past anything anyone tells him, and shows himself up as a savage with tunnel vision, no better then Garrosh.
Post by
Skreeran
Varian doesn't seem like a Nazi to me... He really does care about his people. I would put, say, Putress as the Nazi, or the Scarlet Crusade.
I'm not sure Skreeran. Is throwing his people into an idiotic and senseless war with no clear victor really caring about his people, or just doing it for his own wants and desires? He strikes me as someone who constantly looks past anything anyone tells him, and shows himself up as a savage with tunnel vision, no better then Garrosh.Well, I don't think he thinks peace is an option. In his mind, the Horde is already warring with the Alliance. He may be a little short sided, but I wouldn't call him a nazi. Not yet at least. While I certainly see him capable of mass executions in the future if the opportunity came up, he hasn't done it yet, and we can't be sure one way or the other whether he would or not.
Post by
Rankkor
Varian doesn't seem like a Nazi to me... He really does care about his people. I would put, say, Putress as the Nazi, or the Scarlet Crusade.
maybe just maybe he really does cares about his people, but he's making the worst desitions posible for them.
after the battle of the undercity, varian is super happy like a 16 year old girl on her birthday party to finnaly have a viable excuse to declare formal war against the horde.
while thrall is quite the oposite, he's sad about the whole thing.
why? because WAR KILLS PLP.
no matter who's the good guy, no matter who's the bad guy, in the end, plp die, on both sides, until either one is victorius, or both kill each other.
thrall does't want his plp to die, because no matter if the horde wins the fourth war or not, the fact remains that a lot of his people are going to die anyways.
now, mister Varian the Aryan coudn't care less about his people.
he sees the orcs as a blight on this world, his sole obsesion is to erradicate them from the face of azeroth, he coudn't care less if he had to sacrifice 80% of his own plp to acomplish that goal.
I bet you everything u want that in a tactical situation, if he had an alliance platoon hitting a horde base, and his men are sustaining heavy losses, he has a second squad near to aid them, but they won't get in time, he will either
A:pull his forces back and save them, wait for them to heal, and them strike back with a united offensive, but giving time to the enemy to reorganize and reinforce the place up,
or
B: order his men to stay, they will die, but their sacrifice will buy the second squad the time they need to get to the site, and finish off the horde forces and burn their base.
option A, put more value on his men than a simple horde base, or option B, sacrifice the men but destroy the base.
I SWEAR IT he would choose B, he wound't even consider A at all.
to him the only end is the alliance destroying and disbanding the horde, and if many die on the way those will be honorable sacrifices along the way.
on real life, Hitler wanted power, more importantly he wanted to "purge" the lesser races from the world, and he coudn't care less about his people, to him they were tools, tools to acomplish a goal.
I am aware that the word "nazi" is quite a strong term, and it could offend some plp (wich is the reason I don't compare varian to more recent actual political figures, nope, I'm using an old one, that has been dead for half a century, if u all want I can compare him to much older but equally evil political groups or figures)
the alliance as a whole is not that evil, after all velen is a great dude, and tyrande too, magni and the gnome king........... are kinda neutral, neither good nor evil, bolvar was totally lawfull good in every sence of the way, and jaina...... total purity, if there was a rank above lawfull good, jaina would be that rank, but varian? that dude to me falls EXCLUSIVELY on the "lawfull evil" rank of RPG's
also, yhea puttress is way more evil than varian, but at least is because he's a villian, he is acknoledged as a villian by everyone, and he himself doesn't refute that he's acting for his own benefit.
varian on the other hand, is a villian, pretending to be a hero.
(when he should know that a real hero is the one that saves lives, no the one that takes them)
damn :S I really hope in cataclysm varian dies, and Malfurion becomes the new leader of the alliance.
with god as my withness if that happens I may reroll alliance xD, cus to me Malfurion is the alliance version of thrall.
don't make me choose a favorite between those 2, cause I'd never be able to choose :P
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