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Good and Evil
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Post by
109094
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Post by
Skreeran
Alliance:
The Scarlet Crusade is evil, even if the Alliance doesn't support them, they at least consider themselves part of the Alliance.
Warlocks.
Horde:
Warlocks
Many of the Forsaken (although I don't count Sylvanas as evil, more bitter)
(I don't count Garrosh as evil, more hotheaded and racist)
Post by
109094
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Post by
Patty
Are warlocks
actually
evil? or just power junkies?
From what I recall the alliance warlocks are typically hidden in basements, whereas horde warlocks are more 'open'.
In Orgrimmar they are not open. In Lore, if you were revealed as a warlock you would probably be stoned to death or something. Thrall only tolerates them but keeps a very close eye on them.
In the Horde, the supporters of the coup, that actually survived, are evil.
In the Alliance?
Gnomes.
Erm, the ones in favour of killing the Horde via. Genocide. (Proudmoore for instance)
Post by
109094
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Post by
Skreeran
The Scarlet Crusade are not part of the Alliance simply for being human. Saying so is like implying that all Orcs are part of the horde (Blackrock Clan etc). Though in saying that, there is a Scarlet Crusade emeisary in Stormwind, so there may be some truth there.Well, they were once part of the the Alliance, and like you said, there's a Scarlet recruiter in Stormwind, as well as Desolace.
Are warlocks actually evil? or just power junkies?
From what I recall the alliance warlocks are typically hidden in basements, whereas horde warlocks are more 'open'. Does this signify a difference in how they are perceived?It depends. Some Warlocks retain good motives, but for the most part, Warlocks are evil. Just look at their spells. Curse of
Agony
, Searing Pain,
Chaos
Bolt... They summon demons and steal souls, they're pretty stereotypically evil, even if there are many different layers of evil there (say between a warlock who merely wants power and doesn't care what it costs, and my Warlocks Dag'rema, who actively serves the Burning Legion).
While the RAS were definitely evil, with the recent 'purge' how many evil forsaken are left?
I dont know enough about Sylvannas to decide if she is evil or just consumed by revenge.I would say anyone involved with the Coup was dead or is now considered a rogue faction. And again, while many of the Forsaken can be considered evil (the whole Battle of Hillsbrad quest chain, for example), without Varimathras, we have yet to see how they are, although with people like Grand Apothecary Faranell, who is actively known to be a sadist, it is possible that several "evil" Forsakne remain, although the ratio of good to evil is much better than it was. And as for Sylvanas, she is definitely consumed with revenge, and she hates humans, but I don't think she's evil. She's exactly how you'd expect someone who's been through what she has would be like. I feel sad for her, honestly, especially after reading Arthas: RotLK.
And what about all the guys in Ogrimamar - Cleft of Shadow? Mostly locks I thought, and not very hidden compared to the alliance equivelant.Not really. The Warlocks in SW have an entire inn, named "The Slaughtered Lamb." That's fairly obvious in my opinion, and then Ironforge has almost the exact equivalent to the Cleft of Shadows, where their rogues and warlocks hang out.
Besides, you can't really make that argument when you can actually ask a guard where the Warlocks trainer is.
Post by
229054
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Post by
109094
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
109094
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
HiVolt
Regthat Deathgate and such for the orcs
I think you're thinking of Reghar Earthfury, the one who owned Varian, right? A better candidate for misguidedness would definitely be Garrosh.
Regthar is just trying to keep his soldiers alive in the Barrens.
Someone who is pure evil and yet is a member of a faction...
Neeru Fireblade.
There may be a few more, but that's the one that stands out in my mind.
Post by
229054
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Post by
Dralas
Defias actions were influenced by the "evilship" of the House of Nobles.
Scarlet Crusade.
The Blood Elves were influenced by Garithos' "evilship" and Kael's miguidedness.
There goes...
The House of Nobles at this point is almost powerless since Varian returned, haven't seen too much action from them lately. However, that does raise a rather good point on how Stormwind at one time before Varian's return was rather corrupt.
Post by
Adamsm
Well, they were once part of the the Alliance, and like you said, there's a Scarlet recruiter in Stormwind, as well as Desolace.
The guys in Stormwind and Desolace are trying to clean up the Scarlet Crusade, that's why they send you into Scarlet Monestary to kill the Leaders, then later on Tirion Fordring, gets your help with trying to turn other Crusader's from the Dark into the Light.
Post by
Eledhwen
I play a Blood Elf warlock and she's not evil. She was the daughter of mages and grew up in Dalaran and became a mage herself. Then Quel' Thalas was destroyed and then Dalaran fell so she was without a home. She lost her magical source after the Sunwell was destroyed and took up being a warlock for two reasons. 1.) To replace and dispel the horrible loss she felt as a result of the loss of the Sunwell's magic . 2.) She felt that learning and mastering the magic of the enemy (The Burning Legion) was an effective way to do battle against them. Her story is that she eventually helps rebuild Silvermoon City and Quel'Thalas and goes to the Outlands to join Kael'thas and the Sin' dorei. Her parents had gone with Kael'thas through the portal earlier when they escaped after being imprisoned by Garithos.
Then her parents and she realized that Kael'thas has turned evil so they become Scryers . He parents stayed in Shattrath and she is in Northrend at Thrall's request battling the Lich King and serving the interests of the Horde. She uses her warlock powers to do battle but is honorable and patriotic to her people and the Horde. Being a warlock was a practical decision for her to make. She even debated about whether to stay Quel'dorei (High Elf) or become Sin'dorei (Blood Elf). She became the Sin'dorei because her parents did and she believed in Kael's vision at one time. When that changed she still felt a tie to Quel'thalas and her people and the Horde.
So yes, one can be a warlock and NOT be evil. Depends on how you figure it out.
Post by
Skreeran
Yes, it's quite possible, but for the most part, warlocks are corrupted by the Fel magics they use, and their spells reflect that. Most Warlocks represented in the game and books are cruel and sadistic, which is a primary component of being "evil."
Post by
109094
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Post by
Skreeran
I wouldn't say that the Consuming Desire for Revenge is part of the definition of evil, rather a cause. One can be consumed with a desire for revenge and be simply a sad story, rather than evil. Take Inigo Montoya, for example. He had dedicated his life to revenge, but he certainly wasn't evil.
But yeah, my definition of "evil" persay is:
Cruel/Sadistic (even if not physically, some of the things Arthas said to Kael'thas or Sylvanas are just evil)
Hatefulness
No value of life and is willing to prove it (that last part is important)
Those are the three universal attributes of true evil, in my opinion.
I think yours are good, except for overlap (Torture, Sadism, and Cruelty are basically the same thing), the fact that one can be evil without being genocidal (See: Stalvan), and the fact that murder is not necessarily evil. (Like Assassins for example. My Rogue base has killed hundreds, but I don't consider him evil, because he is still a good person inside. It's just a job to him. The
Meet the Sniper
video is another good example.)
Post by
109094
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
I loved that film so much as well... Dread Pirate Roberts (Wesley) Is a Pirate-Ninja hybrid, which kicks ass.
But is different to how Maiev acted in pursuit of Illidan (I dont think she killed everyone who slightly inconvienced her)Right, that's what I'm saying. If she had killed everyone who inconvienced her, then she would have shown that she had no value for life, one of my listed definitions. But because she still did value life, and didn't kill anyone who got in her way, she's more sad than evil, even though she was consumed by revenge.
So I suppose you're right in saying all-consuming revenge, as that contains the "no value of life" thing, although I certainly wouldn't say you needed a desire for revenge to be evil. Look at the Burning Legion, for example, they have no value for mortal life, are cruel and sadistic, and are full of hatred for, well, everything, but they don't want revenge.
And let me see...
Faranell would be evil, under those terms, although Sylvanas would not. She might want to be cruel and sadistic to Arthas for revenge, but in general she is not especially cruel, nor hateful to anyone but the Scourge and living Humans (humans in particular, both because of Arthas, and then the whole attempted geneocide thing). She's pretty borderline though. I still find her more sad than evil. For example, I find Gul'dan repulsively evil, because he was cruel and murderous without a reason. Sylvanas is a very sad story though, she certainly didn't choose to become what she is.
Warlocks, again, because almost all Warlocks presented in lore are in fact hateful and sadistic.
Justin Bartlett
and
Korm Blackscar
are up there too, that's complete genocide they're working towards. In my opinion, Korm is the Horde's Garithos.
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