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Post by
MyTie
Ok, we disagree, Squish. I guess there's nothing left to discuss.
Post by
Adamsm
they don't have more hurdles to overcome than anyone else in the sport.
Or at least, what's written about them to make it seem that way; there are articles/reports on black athletes that have said they grew up and escaped the 'ghetto'....then you find out that said ghetto was the ritzy neighborhood of say Queens, New York. It's all about what will sell stuff.
Post by
Squishalot
Ok, we disagree, Squish. I guess there's nothing left to discuss.
Ok, no worries. Happy to leave it at that.
Post by
MyTie
Obama wants to repeat auto industry bailout with
every industry
. A' comrades?Happy to leave it at that.
Cool.
Post by
gamerunknown
Most of them were just sitting around on their bottoms cheering at a screen.
Which is how the Olympics continues to exist. If you didn't see the Coca Cola logo or a McDonalds advertisement every so often, there'd be very little interest in the Olympics (despite the preponderance of funding being public).
Obama wants to repeat auto industry bailout with every industry. A' comrades?
Speaking as an unrepentent Marxist, I'm wondering how you think giving taxpayer money to private owners of industry is a particularly revolutionary idea (I know it's not Capitalism of the stripe vonMises imagined, but it's something Reagan did).
To imagine that there is some sort of giant class barrier between the races is to live in a time machine.
No, it's to acknowledge reality. Black people in the US are disproportionately more likely to be in prison, less likely to attend university, more likely to receive welfare, less likely to be employed, more likely to become pregnant as teenagers and have a lifespan six years lower than the average American one. There are two possibilities here. An endemic and egregious culture of dog-whistle politics and systemic injustice, or the inherent inferiority of blacks. If it's the former, then the success of blacks is evidence of progress against adversity which may continue untrammelled. If the latter, then the success of blacks is evidence of overcoming innate shortcomings, or perhaps even biological developments allowing them to be more like the superior whites. Course, that could be seen as patronising by the white guys, since they know blacks will never rise to the success enjoyed by whites.
I obviously believe in the former scenario.
Post by
yukonjack
I am really torn on this one. The story is a Facebook page originating from Australia that contains a cartoon depicting Australian Aboriginal people as drunken welfare cheats. I was unable to find the actual page but there is a link to the story here
A Can of Worms
I personally loathe any form of racism but I also very strongly believe in freedom of speech and of course my failure to find the actual cartoon at the heart of the story makes it even harder to decide which side of the debate I land on.
Post by
MyTie
To imagine that there is some sort of giant class barrier between the races is to live in a time machine.
No, it's to acknowledge reality. Black people in the US are disproportionately more likely to be in prison, less likely to attend university, more likely to receive welfare, less likely to be employed, more likely to become pregnant as teenagers and have a lifespan six years lower than the average American one. There are two possibilities here. An endemic and egregious culture of dog-whistle politics and systemic injustice, or the inherent inferiority of blacks. If it's the former, then the success of blacks is evidence of progress against adversity which may continue untrammelled. If the latter, then the success of blacks is evidence of overcoming innate shortcomings, or perhaps even biological developments allowing them to be more like the superior whites. Course, that could be seen as patronising by the white guys, since they know blacks will never rise to the success enjoyed by whites.
I obviously believe in the former scenario.
You present a false dichotomy fallacy. I reject that the black race is inferior. I also reject that an endemic and egregious culture of dog-whistle politics and systemic injustice. Those are
NOT
the only two possibilities. I have made it no secret that I believe black culture itself promotes irresponsibility and criminal behavior more often than white culture. The culture of many black entertainers glamorizes violence and does little to applaud education. It isn't them, and it isn't "the system". It's their culture.
I don't want to react hostilely to your post, gamer, but I resent being presented with a post where I have to agree with you or I'm racist.I personally loathe any form of racism but I also very strongly believe in freedom of speach and of course my failure to find the actual cartoon at the heart of the story makes it even harder to decide which side of the debate I land on.
I understand where you are coming from. To embrace free speech is to open the door to those who will abuse it.
Post by
Adamsm
I have made it no secret that I believe black culture itself promotes irresponsibility and criminal behavior more often than white culture. The culture of many black entertainers glamorizes violence and does little to applaud education. It isn't them, and it isn't "the system". It's their culture.
And of course, can say that white culture is about being fat, lazy, selfish etc etc etc if you believe what the entertainers and media paints them as.....
Post by
MyTie
And of course, can say that white culture is about being fat, lazy, selfish etc etc etc if you believe what the entertainers and media paints them as.....
Lazy? Definately. I find it horrible how lazy my generation has been, on a whole. Definately. I don't see this as a competition. This isn't black problems vs white problems. That kind of thinking is what causes us to ignore problems. We don't want to identify problems in black culture because of that. If we put that competition and racism out of our minds, and just try to identify problems and correct them, out of love, then we have no problem bettering humanity, or at least, attempting to. White culture has problems. Black culture has problems. Overall culture has problems. I think these problems are vastly and overwhelmingly more the source of the problem than "the system" is.
Post by
Adamsm
And yet, without that 'system' those problems wouldn't exist either; the system does force the unrealistic culture ideals on people.
Post by
MyTie
And yet, without that 'system' those problems wouldn't exist either; the system does force the unrealistic culture ideals on people.
Heh, yeah, without laws, there would be no crime, and without jails, no one would be imprisoned.
Post by
yukonjack
And yet, without that 'system' those problems wouldn't exist either; the system does force the unrealistic culture ideals on people.
Rather vague but if you mean what I think you mean then I agree.
And yet, without that 'system' those problems wouldn't exist either; the system does force the unrealistic culture ideals on people.
Heh, yeah, without laws, there would be no crime, and without jails, no one would be imprisoned.
A fine example of reductio ad absurdum.
Post by
MyTie
A fine example of reductio ad absurdum.
I don't know how else to represent a counter argument but to point to the reduction of the position. Until Adamsm explains further how the system is the
cause
of the problem, and not the violent and irresponsible culture, then there is no room for the conversation to grow.
Post by
Adamsm
Because the culture isn't any worse then any of the others; focusing on exaggerated versions and acting like they are the norm for everything in a race is moronic.
Post by
MyTie
Because the culture isn't any worse then any of the others
I made it clear that this isn't some sort of competition. Every culture has its issues that need to be addressed. To constantly see one culture as the victim of another culture, opens the door for ignoring the problems of the "victim" culture.focusing on exaggerated versions and acting like they are the norm for everything in a race is moronic.
Again, no one is saying that the "norm" of "everything" is violent. I've said that there is an element of violence in the culture that needs to be addressed, and is the root of many problems within their lives.
Post by
Adamsm
/shrug Whatever MyTie.
Post by
yukonjack
Because the culture isn't any worse then any of the others
I made it clear that this isn't some sort of competition. Every culture has its issues that need to be addressed. To constantly see one culture as the victim of another culture, opens the door for ignoring the problems of the "victim" culture.focusing on exaggerated versions and acting like they are the norm for everything in a race is moronic.
Again, no one is saying that the "norm" of "everything" is violent. I've said that there is an element of violence in the culture that needs to be addressed, and is the root of many problems within their lives.
So your arguement is African-Americans have only themselves to blame for making their own hurdles due to some aspects of their modern pop culture?
Again, no one is saying that the "norm" of "everything" is violent. I've said that there is an element of violence in the culture that needs to be addressed, and is the root of many problems within their lives.
That statement alone gives me an impression of a passive agressive bigot trying to make me believe in a false generalization. To blame some aspects of modern pop culture on the challenges and hurdles faced by an entire demographic would seem to me at least to be incredibly short sighted.
There is also historical evidence of how rediculous and ineffective the entire notion of blaming pop culture for the woes of society as can be seen here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PMRC
of course rap and hip hop weren't as popular back then so they picked on heavy metal.
Post by
MyTie
Ok, let's use an acceptable target.
White people have experienced a statistical increase in obesity. Why?
Post by
MyTie
New Haven town officials want to
take little girl's rabbit away
. It sounds like the town officials don't like the dad's poor house maintenance and are looking for ways to put pressure on him. This is what happens when rule enforcers take things too far in order to try to gain compliance.
Post by
134377
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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